1 2 3 4 5 6 7 ~3 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT Special Session Monday, January 26, 2004 9:00 a.m. Commissioners' Courtroom Kerr County Courthouse Kerrville, Texas 4 PRESENT: PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge H.A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 DAVE NICHOLSON, Commissioner Pct. 4 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 2 I N D E X January 26, 2004 PAGE -- Commissioners' Comments 4 1.1 Introduce Christopher M. Avery, Ph.D., discuss a '/ ~`~r14 Long Range Planning Workshop to be held Feb. 11 10 1.2 Request to use Flat Rock Lake Park April 7-11 for a ~~ 4~ Annual Kerrville Chili & BBQ Classic Easter Fest 30 1.3 Discuss allowing Master Gardener Program to place a greenhouse next to Extension Office 33 1.6 Request for Commissioners Court to reconsider and ~S~Cj~P approve setting a public hearing on freezing ad valorem property tax values for elderly/disabled 55 1.4 Presentation of proposed management of Union Church Building and proposed rental schedule, approve new Board Members and change officers 66 1.5 Request for use of Courthouse for Democratic ~ ~~ County Convention 85 1.9 Discuss the January 7, 2004 offer from Mooney p~ ~~ ~~ Airplane Corporation to revise and extend lease 89 1.7 Discuss whether or not January 2, 2004 is to be--,.~ considered an Official County Holiday -- 1.8 Reduction of registration fees for Rabies Drive F b 7 2004 th h F b 21 ~~q d e ruary , roug e ruary , 2004 a } 105 1.12 Discuss findings/status of construction pad on Should Bee Road a ~ ~~ ~ 109 1.13 Discuss findings/status of development at the end of Cardinal Hill Road _, 127 1.14 Discuss findings/status of operation of caliche pit in Wood Trails Subdivision =-_ 131 1.15 Discuss progress of efforts to remove solid waste in Wood Trails Subdivision - 135 1.10 Consider the contingencies for a cul-de-sac in Court Order 28133, approve the completion of sa me 142 f~ ~~V 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 3 I N D E X (Continued) January 26, 2004 p~ ~.~ r PAGE 1.11 Award annual bids for Road & Bridge materials 144 1.16 Approve Change Order #5 to compensate Compton Construction - 148 1.17 Approve Kerr County Information/Tec~o~~ gyzPolicies 152 1.18 Approve Resolution prohibiting the use of excessive force by law enforcement agencies ~ ~ ,~~ 158 1.19 Discuss Kerr County Water Availability Rea~airements -----_ 163 1.20 Discuss Kerr County Manufactured Home Rental Communities Order 173 1.21 Approval of county-sponsored contract between Kerra ~~~ County and Region J, authorize County Judge to sign 180 1.22 Discuss status of Burn Ban O~ ~ ~ ~~ 182 1.23 Discuss proposals submitted, approval of tele- ~c}~ communications equipment lease or purchase for bb ~P Extension Office, authorize County Judge to sign 186 1.24 Discuss Liaison/Committee Assignments of Commissioners Court Members for 2004 ~ t~~7~"7 194 4 . 1 Pay Bills p~ Dc~ V ~ `, 201 4.2 Budget Amendments a~ ,~ 1 '~-d S~ ~ 205 4.3 Late Bills --- 4 . 4 Approve and Accept Monthly Reports Z,~ .~~ z-- 208 3.1 Action required on Executive Session matters 211 --- Adjourned 217 1 .- 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 ,_„ 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 4 On Monday, January 26, 2004, at 9:00 a.m., a special meeting of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in the Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, Kerrville, Texas, and the following proceedings were had in open court: P R O C E E D I N G S JUDGE TINLEY: Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. It's just a bit after 9:00 now, and I'll call to order the special Commissioners Court meeting posted for this date, Monday, January 26th, 2004, at 9 a.m. Commissioner Letz, I believe the honors go to you. COMMISSIONER LETZ: Would everyone please stand for a moment of prayer, please? (Prayer and pledge of allegiance.) JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. At this time, if there's any member of the public that wishes to express some thoughts to the Court on matters relating to something that is not a listed agenda item, I want them to feel free to come forward at this time. If there's any member of the public that wants tc speak to the Court about any matter that's not listed on the agenda, this is your opportunity. We would be most happy for you to come forward at this time and tell us what's on your mind. Seeing no one moving towards the front, I assume that what you folks may have to say later relates to an agenda item, so we'll move on. Commissioner Letz, what have you got for us this morning? i-2E-o~ 1 .- 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'd just like to thank everyone that helped with the stock show last week. There were, I believe, over 1,100 entries, which shows ag is still a pretty active part of our community. I don't know what the total sale amount was, but by the number of bidders there, it was up in the thousands upon thousands of dollars. Appreciate all those businesses that contributed to the youth of the community, and I just want to thank everybody again. I know that Roy's back in the back and had a big part of it, and it's his first stock show as our new County Extension Agent. I'm sure he got a -- saw how it was done down here. Busy. Anyway, that's all I have today. JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Nicholson? COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: The rains were really good, and people in my part of the county were glad to have an opportunity to burn. That's -- more and more, I learn how important that is to people, to be able to occasionally burn for purposes of getting rid of cedar piles, as well as for agricultural purposes. On that same -- on that subject, there was a tragic accident, I think you know, yesterday in Ingram where a man was burned trying to burn a cedar pile and using gasoline. And I don't know about you; I've done that before, and I won't do it again. COMMISSIONER LETZ: I didn't -- I was not aware of that. 1-~6-n9 1 .~ 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 ,~ 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2C 21 22 23 24 25 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else? COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: No. JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner 1? COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. I just wanted to remind the Commissioners Court that in the very near future, our good friend, Ms. Sovil, will be departing county employment, and -- I think that is true. At least that's what she says. And we need to get on the ball of her -- about her replacement; job description, advertising, and how we're going to handle that and all those things. And I just want to use this as a reminder that it's time for us to get on that. COMMISSIONER LETZ: Are you going to put it on our next agenda, Commissioner? COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I will. I will, if it's -- if everybody thinks that it's time to start moving on it. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I just quarrel with one thing you said; I don't think she can be replaced. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, that is so true. That is so true; I agree with that. Bad choice of words. That's all. JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Williams? ~ - ~ c - 0 4 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 1? 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 ,--~ 25 the stock show. It's really an interesting three- or four-day event, of course, the county show and the other -- and the area shows leading up to that, but what is always gratifying to me is to see all those young people from ages 5 and 6 up through high school-age who work so hard and so diligently to prepare an animal for the stock show and to make it happen. And it's good to see that -- that we are capable of putting on a show like that, that -- to their benefit. I also would like to say that, notwithstanding Commissioner Nicholson's and my two-day efforts at announcing the swine show -- and I'm going to tell you, Honorable Judge, we did one hell of a good job doing that, despite the equipment failures that we experienced repeatedly out there. As you know, it's one thing for the thing to cut in and out on my voice or Commissioner Nicholson's voice, but when you got a high-priced judge in the middle and he's going over the animals and he's telling the -- the audience exactly what he sees and why he sees it and all the good things about -- about that particular class of animals he's judging, and then lending his experience to our show and telling us some things that maybe we would need to consider in the interim between now and next one, and have the public address system cut out about 46 times during his talk is a little bad. And I made the comment at the stock show that, if this Commissioner has anything to do 1-_E-~. 1 2 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 ,~- 25 8 with it -- and I'm saying it for your benefit, too -- there will be a new public address system in that building before that stock show convenes next year. We'll find the money someplace to make it happen. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: If there's a building. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If there's a building. If there's a tent, we'll do what we need to do in a tent. COMMISSIONER LETZ: Commissioner, it's not much better at the other side, on the other barn. There was multiple failures over there as well. And it was set up originally to have three microphones, so the judges could -- you know, 'cause there's three rings going on at the same time. The feedback prevented that from happening, so we were basically passing mics between -- we had two working mics between the three arenas. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Can I expect, then, you'll join. me in our efforts to get a new public address system? COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it's about time COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Good. JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else? COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, sir. JUDGE TINLEY: First and foremost, I would i-~ h-~, 4 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 S 9 10 11 12 „_,~ 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 9 like to, on behalf of all the citizens of Kerr County, express the sympathy of all those citizens to the family and friends of P.F.C. Cody Orr, a young soldier from this county who gave his life for his country in Iraq. I would ask that all of you remember him and his family, and be with the family ar.d their needs in this time. Lastly, I want to pass on to County employees -- principally, the members of the Maintenance Department and Road and Bridge -- from the stock show people, their thanks and accolades for all of the kind work that County employees did at the stock show this -- I started to say this past weekend. They've been working on it for some period of time now; it wasn't just this past few days. But they did yeomar_'s work out there, and the stock show people want them to know, particularly the Maintenance and Road and Bridge people and all the other County employees that helped out, they want them to know it, as well as all the citizens of this county to know it. And, so, on their behalf, thank you. Let's move on into the agenda now. the end of resigned - Smart, who many, many married; i COMMISSIONER LETZ: that? 'Cause there's a - it was going to be the was an integral part of years, is moving to Hou s moving to Houston, and Can I make a comment on County employee that first of the year. Mike that arena and barn for ston. He's going to get agreed to stay here 1-~~-0~ 1 .- 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 ...... 25 10 through the stock show because of his -- you know, I guess the need for him to be here for us, and I really want to thank Mike Smart for agreeing to do that. It was a little bit inconvenient for him to stay a little bit longer than he had planned; it shows his commitment to this community, and appreciate what he did in staying thrcugh stock show. JUDGE TINLEY: I also -- COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I second that. That's good. Thank you, Jon. JUDGE TINLEY: I also appreciate the stock show people, at the beginning of the auction Saturday, when they made particular note of Mike's efforts over many years and recognized him for those efforts. I thought that was a fine thing that they did. Let's move on into the agenda. First item is the introduction of Mr. Christopher M. Avery for a presentation and discussion with Commissioners Court regarding the long-range planning workshop to be held February the 11th of this year, and confirming the date, time, and location. Dr. Avery, thank you for being here with us this morning. MR. AVERY: Thank you. Good to be here. So is the floor mine? COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, indeed. MR. AVERY: Great. I have agreed to facilitate a -- a planning meeting for you all, and what I i ,r ~= 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 ._.. 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 11 don't know is what you want to get done or how you want to get it done or why, except for what I've read in the newspaper and the very brief conversations I've had with Commissioner Williams. So, I have a few questions, and maybe we can get these answered in five or ten minutes. The first is, if you would share with me simply what instigated this workshop; tell me a little bit of the background about how this has come up. JUDGE TINLEY: I think Commissioner Nicholson is the one that brought it to the table, and I'll defer to him to tell you why he brought it. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'll say what I had in mind, and it may be the same as or different than some of the other Commissioners. I -- I have a desire to be more strategic in our -- how we use our time and resources, and to focus our energy on critical issues. We've had some problems, and we've had some opportunities to do this, and we need to be a little more systematic and focused about it. MR. AVERY: Okay. So, when you say "focus" and "strategic," you're talking about direction and priorities? COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yes, sir. MR. AVERY: Are you also talking about time frames? Looking out this far versus this far? COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That, and I would 1 --- 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 .-. 25 12 hope that we would get so far as to -- we would have an opportunity to allocate resources toward the projects that we think are deserving. MR. AVERY: Okay. So, priorities, time frames, resources allocated. COMMISSIONER LETZ: Mr. Avery, if I might add, to follow up with that, part of the -- I think, going back a step further, is what brought this up probably this year is that during the budget process this year, we had a number of items that came up during the process, and they had to basically be tabled because we didn't have any planning in place tc be able to put it into the budget. And because of that, it was, I think, felt -- Commissioner Nicholson brought it to the table first -- that we needed to get an idea ahead -- before the budget process begins, which for us begins basically in June, what each Commissioner -- what, kind of, the Ccmmissioners Court wants to work on in the following -- in the next year, and possibly the years beyond that. And we have to get an idea of the cost related to that at that time, 'cause our -- I mean, when you get into our budget, dollars become very, very important, obviously. So, it's kind of to get everything on the table ahead of time, so then we're ready for the budget process when that begins. And I think long-range planning kind of just follows right with that. i-_r-~~~ 1 ^ 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 13 MR. AVERY: Good. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We each have items that -- that are important, and -- important to us and important to Kerr County and important, in particular, to a -- a regicn or a part of a precinct or whatever. And I think there is value in bringing these things all together. Sometimes one of us will have an idea we've been nurturing for some time, only to find that we may have -- may have sprung something on a colleague that we didn't know we did; that we thought maybe all along that that individual had some understanding or knowledge of what was going through our head. So, I think if we can put these things into some sort of a -- a list, at least identify them for all of our purposes so that -- so that there's riot any -- any super surprises down the line in terms of where we'd like to see -- what we'd like to see accomplished, and maybe even some ideas as to how we intend to approach the funding aspects of these things. We have some constraints, as you may or may not know. We cannot obligate a future court in terms of -- of certain things unless it goes through the process of bonding and -- and so forth and so on. And bonding, itself, for -- certain obligations have certain things that we have to adhere to, and rules and regulations. So, I think, you know, if we get the ideas on the table, we attach some significance and priority to them, I think we're 1 .-~ 2 3 4 5 E 7 8 9 10 11 12 ^_ 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 14 ahead of the game. MR. AVERY: Good. So, all of you have led a little bit into my second question, which is, what is your desired result or your desired outcome? And I would ask you, both in -- you know, if we really nailed it, your best of all possible results, what would it be? And -- and then, on the other end, what's your minimal acceptable results? It sounds like list of ideas, know each other's thinking, priorities, direction, all the way down to, you know, a fair idea about moving towards resources. Any other comments? COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think it all boils down to actually setting goals. And I think -- I think that in this -- in this process, we need to set time limits on our goals. We need to have a five-year plan, and then we have to look at the up-and-coming budget, which is for one year. I think in terms of athletics, and I can see -- I mean, you have to have goals. And I see this basketball team in the dressing room that gets fired up and they're excited about going out and they're tearing the doors off the lockers, breaking the benches, and they go out on the floor and the goals are not up. You got to have goals to play the game. And so, in order for us to be an efficient government body, we have to have those goals, five-year as well as one-year. MR. AVERY: Okay. 1-_~-u~ 1 ,- 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 ,-- 25 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think another point that -- I mean, we need to have the goals, but I think it needs to be very flexible, because things come up and we change, you know, on a pretty regular basis. Something will happen, like mir_rophones at the Ag Sarn. All of a sudden, that's become a higher priority, likely, for this Court. And, you know, even though that may not be a huge expenditure, it's probably going to be a pretty sizable expenditure. So, you have things come up during the year that you have to be able to plug into and have -- you know, so you have -- have to have goals, but you have to be flexible enough to adjust as we go. The other thing that I think is important, and it kind of gets into the application a little bit, is the City of Kerrville and their government. We work with the City on -- very closely on certain areas, such as the airport, library. There's other areas that we're going to start working closer with them; the ETJ, master road plans, and things of that nature. But it's -- there's two totally different forms of government between the City and the County, and it causes a lot of problems in communications. And how to, you know, figure out the best way for to us approach the City is something that we really need to work on, too, which is probably just a goal in itself. MR. AVERY: So, if we were to really nail the - _ E - ~ 4 1 -- 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 ,--~ 25 16 date for you, what would -- what would we get done? Goals -- one- and five-year goals, right? COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. MR. AVERY: What else? identify what are the critical issues, and that in that respect, I think some of the -- the things that I think we need to work on may be different than some of the things one of you need to work on. So, we need to get all those issues out on the table first, and then prioritize them; say, "No, we're not going to work on that one, but we will work on these few." Which we need to look -- narrow the list of those deemed to be high-priority by a consensus of this Court. And then I'd like to see us, if we can, on the -- in that meeting, to develop a project plan. Who, what, when, how are we going to caork on those few items that we deem high-priority, and with our time. MR. AVERY: What would be your least acceptable outcome, if that's your most? If that's your -- if that's nailing it, what's your minimal acceptable? COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Identifying the critical issues. MR. AVERY: Okay, thank you. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think we have to ~E-a^_ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 .. 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 17 note that, you know, we have the potential for a wide range of -- of topics. MR. AVERY: Yes, sir. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Or a range going anywhere from facilities, the care and keeping thereof or construction thereof, through infrastructure, through water resources, the acquisition and maintenance of that and protection of that. So, we have a wide spectrum of things we can -- we can be talking about, and a lot of things can drop in between all of that, and I'd like to see us cover as many of those bases as possible. MR. AVERY: Okay. COMMISSIONER LETZ: To me, a minimum, you know, goal for me would be to understand better what each of the Commissioners want. Because the fact that it's -- you know, I may have an issue that I think is very important, and the fact that it's not on the priority list is not going to mean I'm going to drop it. So -- and I don't think every Commissioner feels the same way about things that are important to their precincts, or possibly something, you know, for whatever reason, that's a very high priority to them. So I think, you know, trying to develop a consensus is great, but the fact that you can't doesn't mean we failed on it, because there's lots of things that, you know, can still proceed. But I think if we can just at least 1-L6-04 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 18 understand what each of us are trying to do and want to do, almost like a brainstorming session, to me, would be a positive coming out of a meeting like this. MR. AVERY: Okay. When I do this kind of work, I would often speak with each of you, either collectively or individually, and ask you for specific agenda items. If we were to do that now, I could imagine we could be here a very long time. Do we have an opportunity for me to speak with you, or for working with you by e-mail between now and then, where you could send me individually your agenda items that you'd like to see addressed? Is that appropriate? COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yes. COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's appropriate if you deal with each of us, but not all of us at once. MR. AVERY: Okay. COMMISSIONER LETZ: Because of Open Meetings requirements, things like that. I mean, you and I are free to talk all we want, but you can't -- you know, it's got to be just us two. Can't be Dave and I talking to you. MR. AVERY: That's fine. My work ethic is that I represent each of you individually and collectively as a group, so if it works for me to work with each of you individually in preparing an agenda, that's perfect. COMMISSIONER LETZ: Good. E' - '~; 4 i 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 ,_... 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I can provide the e-mail addresses for all of us, and you can feel free to do with them as you wish. MR. AVERY: They're out there on the Internet. Y'all can't hide; I already got them. (Laughter.) COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You're right. MR. AVERY: What do you expect from me as a facilitator most of all? COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Keep us on course. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That's it. MR. AVERY: Okay. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You know, I'm going to be amazed if we can all show up at the same meeting place at the same time. But -- and then staying on target is going to be the key. MR. AVERY: Okay, good. What else? COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I don't know if you've worked with -- with government before. I know you work with a lot of businesses. And if you haven't, I think you'll fir_d that government is a -- is handicapped by -- by laws, such as the Open Meetings Act, and it's difficult for us to efficiently pursue our goals and objectives. So, I'm expecting that you'll help us be able to do that in this lawful, authorized forum. i-,~-n~ 20 1 -- 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 ,.-.. 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2C 21 22 23 24 25 MR. AVERY: As long as you keep me aware of what I car. and can't do in those. Good. What else? What else do you expect of me, as a facilitator, to do for you? JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I -- I think it also cuts across the -- not just expectations of you, but optimum results. Because of your background and expertise, I would hope that the individuals on the Court and the Court collectively can become more effective at a cooperative effort in dealing with, for example, joint projects with the City, dealing with our own elected officials and employees, dealing with other governmental agencies, constituents, utilizing their input and -- and abilities. Because of your background and expertise, trying to plug in some of this teamwork thing that -- that is at the core of -- of your work. MR. AVERY: I'll do my best. Any issues that I need to be prepared for? Anything that might be in the way of our ability to work together to get things done? COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, we're going to surprise you. (Laughter.) One thing I wanted to bring up, though -- it might -- this might and might not happen; I don't know. I still can't see exactly what we're doing. But, as an example, if we want t~ deal with Road and Bridge issues, we may have our County Engineer there to help us steer through the land mines. If we talk about the Ag Barn 1-z6-o~ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 21 and the P.A. system, we might have our Facilities Manager there to help steer us in that kind of thing. A support staff may be with us to help us. MR. AVERY: Okay. COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think I -- I mean, on that, I'd probably defer to you. Should we bring support staff or not? COMMISSIONER BALDvVIN: Yeah. Yeah. MR. AVERY: I think it depends how detailed you want to get in decision-making as to whether you need those. I would generally say, for a group like yourselves, to probably not. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think I concur with that. MR. AVERY: That would distract from the primary process that you're asking me to do, which is to help you generate a list of ideas, brainstorm, be creative and innovative, and then wrestle with them in terms of figuring out, you know, what criteria, what values you want to use in making trade-offs between these, and moving to some closure. And if you add a lot of staff, either standing by or on-call to come answer particular questions of this sort, that -- it might get in the way of our ability to do that. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I agree with that, i-~6-~~. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 ,.-~. 25 22 and I -- I think we can always work with our staff on a later basis. I don't want to spend an entire day and waste your time and our collective time spending eight to ten hours, or however many hours we're there, figuring out reasons why we can't do something. I'd like to be able to figure out what they are, and reasons -- or examine alternatives as to how we can d~ things. MR. AVERY: The -- the overall model of -- of how we will work is very simple. You can think of it as a diamond shape, where we start with a process of opening the diamond, and we get wider and wider and wider in thinking about creative ideas and innovative ideas, and then the diamond starts narrowing, and that's a process of trying to decide how you're going to decide. And then the last part, the closure, can be led -- the closure on the other end is when you actually put a stake in the ground and say this or that. And there's a variety of techniques and processes and tools that we'll use for each of those three activities. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Very good. MR. AVERY: So that, hopefully, Commissioner Baldwin, gives you an idea of what we're going to do. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Good. Very good, thank you. MR. AVERY: That concludes my questions. 1-^~-~ ~ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2G 21 22 23 24 ~.-. 25 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Don't go away, 'cause we got to tell you where we're going to do this. MR. AVERY: Yes, sir. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We're not going to do it underneath a tent. Commissioner Letz and I thought that this might be a beneficial function to take place in the eastern part of the county, notwithstanding that the west of the county has a -- has a very deep and abiding interest in what we do. But it's not often when we take any meeting of the Court out of the courthouse, so how are we going to -- how are we going to do that? We narrowed down our choice of places to do that to about two, and finally narrowed it down to one. I contacted friends who own and operate the Rocking River Inn and the River Bluff at the Rocking River Inn in beautiful downtown Center Point, and I want to present to you this morning -- before I do, I want to tell you what we're going to do. Betty and Ken Wardlaw have graciously agreed to host our event at their facility. I want to tell you just a little bit about Ken and Betty. They bought a very run-down old facility in Center Point, and when they got ahold of it, you could hardly see it from the road because it had been overgrown. and left to deteriorate over the years. There's a historical aspect to this particular property. They have restored it and made it into a -~~F-o~ i 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 ..-. 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 .--. 25 24 beautiful bed and breakfast. And, subsequent to that, they have added a festival-type barn on their premises. So, I am -- I have a letter here from Betty and Ken, "Thanks so much for contacting us about the inn for the Commissioners planning session on February 11. We welcome the opportunity to have you here as we discussed. We will provide coffee and muffins in the morning, lurch and coffee and water all day for the six participants, and in addition, we'd like to invite Commissioners' spouses to join them for cocktails in the River Bluff Festival Barn at the end of the day." And they're asking for confirmation, which we'll do this morning. We'll -- this goes on to say they have a large screen for slide or computer presentations, TV in the meeting room that would be good for us to meet with the facilitator. And she's right behind you, Doctor, so you can get a chance to meet her. And so this is where my motion will take us, as to the River Bluff at the Rocking River Inn. Betty Wardlaw, would you please stand up so the Court can see you? And we want to thank you for your willingness to host this event. And we're going to get started at 8:30 a.m. on the morning of February 11th with coffee and muffins, and their we're going to go in the session at 9:00. We'll have a break for lunch, and we'll see where the afternoon session takes us. So, without further ado, Judge, i-~r~-_~ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 •-- 25 25 I would offer a motion that the Court confirm the workshop date for February 11, beginning at 9 a.m. officially, Dr. Avery conducting it, at the Rocking River Inn in Center Point, Texas. COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded. The Sheriff indicated he had something -- some question. SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The only question I had, when you made the statement about the support staff and that, and if you're setting priorities, I would hope that there's definitely going to be some contact with the different department heads, like Jannett or Linda or myself; that we may see some -- what could be major expenses, major things come through the county that would be part of that list that they may not be actually aware of at this time. But I think you could have the input from your department heads. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. MR. AVERY: I think that's a -- MS. PIEPER: I'm already ahead of you. I put my sticky right over there. MR. AVERY: I think that's a good thing, if you would ask your department heads the same questions I asked you. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We can do that in i-_h-n 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 advance. MR. AVERY: Yeah, in advance, absolutely. Thank you. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Question. JUDGE TINLEY: Is there any -- yes, Commissioner B aldwin? COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: This is going to be a full-blown Com missioners Court meeting there? JUDGE TINLEY: No, sir, workshop. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Be a workshop there. Will the court reporter be there and C ounty Clerk's office, et cetera? Do we have authority from the County Attorney in writing that w e can do this? COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: He has said in the past we could take -- we could not tak e the regular meetings out, but this is a workshop. There wi ll be no actions taken. It is for -- COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I understand. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- the purpose of brainstorming. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Don't get me wrong. I agree -- COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: He has made tYiat statement in this room in the past. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I understand that. i-2F.-_~ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 27 Could we get it in writing, please? COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sure. JUDGE TINLEY: Subject to that confirmation, you're in support of the motion, I gather? COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir, absolutely. JUDGE TINLEY: All right. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Well, before -- before this is -- we're through with this subject, I want to express, first, my appreciation to Commissioner Williams for -- for lining up a consultant and a place to do it, and I also want to say that I -- I've had the pleasure of working with a lot of consultants, and Dr. Avery's credentials are among the best. We have a number of people in the county who know the -- know the fundamentals of -- of helping us with a program like this, but we're dealing with a really first-class consultant here, and -- and I fully expect that the results of our planning meeting will -- will reflect the quality of the consultant we have. Thank you. MR. AVERY: Thank you, sir. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think it is important to add, Commissioner, as well, that both Dr. Avery and the Wardlaws are doing this gratis for the County; there is no charge to the County whatsoever, and so that even makes it better. COMMISSIONER LETZ: A comment going back to 1-~~-~~ 1 .,-, 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 .- 25 28 what the Sheriff mentioned. I think it's important that we get that information. I'm trying to figure out the best way. It might be best to have them e-mail it straight to Dr. Avery. MR. AVERY: I'll send you an e-mail and invite you to do that. COMMISSIONER LETZ: That can be disbursed out. And that way, it's going straight in there, and it's kind of in one spot. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Good. COMMISSIONER LETZ: To be -- you know, he can bring it out the way he sees fit. MR. AVERY: Right. COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is there any other information related to county government that would be helpful to you that -- just on, I guess, organization, or are you familiar enough? MR. AVERY: If you have a printout on things like the bonding issue that you talked about where you can't commit a future court, and anything like that would be helpful to me, but I'm not totally ignorant when it comes to government functioning. COMMISSIONER LETZ: I saw some of the -- Santa Ana is one of the -- City of Santa Ana was one. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Maybe the TAC -- the 1-~5-~~~ -- 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 ... 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 .,-. 25 29 TAC handbook that lists all the enabling legislation under which county government operates, the various categories. It's always an eye-opener, because there are a lot of things people don't know that we can do. There are some things we can't do, which are also listed in there. So, I'll see that you get a copy of that. MR. AVERY: Great. And my assumption with any group I work with is that they're aware, usually, of their own -- COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. MR. AVERY: -- limitations, rules, bureaucratic procedures and other things in their way or -- or pushing them along, and I rely on all of your minds in that way. JUDGE TINLEY: Any further questions or discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. (Nc response.) JUDGE TINLEY: Dr. Avery, Ms. Wardlaw, we COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. JUDGE TINLEY: -- as we're trying to enhance and further our process, and we really, really appreciate 1 - ~ h - G 9 1 -~ 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 30 your efforts. Thank you. COMMISSIONER LETZ: Thank you. MR. AVERY: Thank you. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you. JUDGE TINLEY: Next item on the agenda is consideration and discussion of a request to use Flat Rock Lake Park from Wednesday, April 7th through April 11th of this year for the annual Kerrville Chili and Barbecue Classic Easter Fest. Yes, ma'am? MS. TENERY: It says Morris Tenery on there, but I'm Terri Tenery. And the -- in 2002 it was a group of us decided to keep the Easter Fest alive by forming a nonprofit group called Kerrville Chili and Barbecue Classic. Our goal is to promote chili and barbecue and fun in the county area. We would like to have our Easter Fest again this year. This will be our third year, if you allow it, at the park. We would like to be able to go in there Wednesday night and start setting up, through Sunday afternoon. Overnight camping is -- is one requisition we would like to ask for. We have many chili cooks and barbecue cooks who come in a day or two early so that they can get prepared. We're going to again have chili and barbecue, and a big Easter egg hunt, and we're hoping to have some other vendors with food, games for children. Some of the other things we'd like to -- we're hoping to get is either a car show or 1-~6-G9 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 31 a motorcycle show. We're not talking about a rally so much as just bringing them out and letting people look at them. That depends on whether or not it rains. If it rains, the car people don't come out. Anyway, we'd like to ask the Court's permission to hold this event again this year. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Overnight parking for campers would be for the event participants, not the public at large? MS. TENERY: That's correct. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, I would move that we -- the Court authorize the use of Flat Rock Lake Park from Wednesday, April 7, through April 11th, for the annual Kerrville Chili and Barbecue Classic Easter Fest, as outlined by Ms. Tenery. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'll second that motion. JUDGE TINLEY question or discussion? Motion made and seconded. Any COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. I'm sorry, question. The motion is from what date to what date? COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 7 through 11. Is that what you asked for? MS. TENERY: I believe it was. Wednesday, April 7th, I believe it is, through Sunday, April 11th. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And 7 -- 7 is just for 1-~6-0~ 32 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 1? I8 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 you folks to go in? MS. TENERY: Right, we'll be going in Wednesday after work to start setting up the tents, or where -- placing the tents and getting our parking lines drawn. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is the party starting Wednesday night? MS. TENERY: No, it starts about Thursday or Friday. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You don't want to be late. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't want to be there too early. MS. TENERY: We'd also like to have y'a11 -- I don't know if it would be a problem, but we would like to have y'all be judges on some of these events for barbecue and chili. And I believe Mr. Baldwin has been at a chili cook-off or two before. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I've judged a few, and -- as you can see. JUDGE TINLEY: A willing participant, it appears. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I will be unable to attend this year, thank you. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: May I have permission 1 - ~ G - _, 4 1 .-- 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 33 to take your place? COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You do. JUDGE TINLEY: Any further questions or discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. (No response.) JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Thank you very much, Ms. Tenery. MS. TENERY: Thank you. JUDGE TINLEY: Next item on the agenda is consideration. and discussion of allowing the Master Gardener Program, sponsored by the Texas Cooperative Extension Service, place a greenhouse adjacent to the Extension Office as part of their program. We have our County Extension Agent, Mr. Roy Walston, with us today. MR. WALSTON: Thank you, Judge and Commissioners. I want to first start off by thanking each one of you for being out and helping and supporting the youth of Kerr County in the Hill Country district show. I mean, y'all put in a lot of hours, and -- and I can honestly say that this is the most support I've ever seen from the Commissioners Court, so I appreciate that. To answer Commissioner Letz' question on the sale, from what I i-?5-o~ 1 ,-.. 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 34 understand, the sale total after the sale -- immediately after the sale was $558,000 for the 349 youth that sold. So, that, I think, is -- far exceeds what they've done in the past. And this doesn't include any add-ons, and there will be several add-ons to go to that, so we could be pushing up 575,000 to 600,000. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The newspaper only reported the reserve champion -- what the reserve did, the champions. MR. WALSTON: The champion county steer sold for $8,500. So, the county kids and the district kids, they all -- it was really -- the sale held up all the way through. And that's -- I heard several people say, you know they're just not getting their money spent, so that's why I expect there to be a lot of add-ons later on, to try to take care of that. And, to give ycu just a rough estimate that I feel fairly comfortable with -- it was kind of funny. Bob Dittmar -- I guess this was Friday morning; we got together and -- and he said, you know, I'd like to know how much money is actually spent in this county for this sale -- or during the three days. And I said, "Well, it's funny; I was thinking that on the way into town this morning." And, to just give a kind of rough estimate as to the total number of individuals coming from out-of-county -- as you had mentioned, 1,100 exhibitors. Some of those are in-county, i-?5-r:~ 1 --- 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 „_ 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 35 some cut-of-county. I estimated close to half a million dollars in revenues were spent here in the county through businesses over the three days, and that's not including guests and grandmas and grandpas that are coming in. So, that kind of gives you an idea. I can tell you the businesses -- the restaurants and motels were -- were packed. So, that's just to kind of bring you up to speed on that. And I -- again, I appreciate all y'all's support, and all the hundreds of volunteers. It -- it ran faster this year than I think it has in numerous years, and that's mainly thanks to those support -- volunteer staff that have done it so long and know how -- what they're doing and how they're doing it. So, it was really a nice show that I enjoyed as well. To get to our agenda item, we've got the Master Gardener's greenhouse project proposal, and I hope each one of you have a copy of this and have had an opportunity to go over it. Thanks to our master gardener support staff, John Coleman and Tony Passini have helped to nut this program -- put this proposal together and get some numbers that we could feel comfortable with. And that is a greenhouse that we've got -- we've tal'xed to the company, and this is -- this is pretty well set in stone. The master gardeners have generated funds from volunteers of $2,700, and this is funds that they have donated from individual i-a6-o~2 1 ^ 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 ^ 24 25 36 master gardeners. Currently, our county master gardeners have -- we have 50 master gardeners in the county. We have a class coming on currently of 23, and the 50 that we have now -- right now generate about 3,000 hours of master volunteer hours towards the citizens here in Kerr County. What they would like to do is have this greenhouse to help and train their classes, as well as to use fir -- for a youth training for 4-H, junior master gardener groups, elementary schools, to see some propagation and to learn about plant growth and development. The plan will come together through basically two phases. We won't finish it all after the first phase. The first phase will include the structure, including a matting floor, a cold frame, which, if you'll look on -- in your addendums there, it's got a picture of it. A cold frame structure with side walls, two polyethylene shade cloth coverings with some interior benches. These will help support the plants and at a workable height. The electrical installation will include an inflation pump and a fan, which will provide a layer for the polyethylene coverings over the greenhouse. The lighting will include four 8-foot florescent lamps which will be installed along with a heater fan, and heating will be with a propane heater. The heating will be -- we've got -- we've contacted the gas companies, and they're going to be setting up the propane and the 1 ?r o~ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 ..--.. 25 37 supply tanks. We found out the distances and everything as far as where we can put that. The master gardeners will -- will fund that portion of it. That's something that they can -- they feel like they can take care of that part of it. Where we're asking for the Commissioners' support is basically through the electrical maintenance and electrical support of ttie -- ~f the facility. We've estimated that to be around $837.53 a year, which is a maximum. That's running it 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, whether it be electric or whether it be heating or cooling. That won't ever happen. It's not -- it won't be necessary, but we wanted to know the actual maximum, and so that would come into an additional $70. And the reason they're wanting to do that is so they don't have to set an extra meter strictly for just that greenhouse for the master gardeners. And, like I say, with the weather here, it'll take us probably a year to figure out kind of what that will actually be, but we don't see that -- that could probably cut in half. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me ask you a question. If you don't have a separate meter, how do we know what is -- MR. WALSTON: What it's going to be? COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. MR. WALSTON: Unless we can -- just by going i-~~-u~ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 38 off of our previous -- previous expenses and bills from what we've done in the past. And I would guess our office is fairly consistent. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Help me with the geographies here. I can't tell exactly -- I see fences and I see -- MR. WALSTON: Okay. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- Extension buildings, but -- MR. WALSTON: Okay. There's a lot there on the -- and I -- my directions, when I get out there, somewhat get turned around. And I'm guessing on the east side, the -- the Highway 27 going to Center Point is on the right side there. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is that where it says "Master Gardeners" at the bottom of this page? MR. WALSTON: Yes, sir. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That would be Highway 27? MR. WALSTON: Well, the right -- to the right is on the -- is the Highway 27. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, it looks to me like the greenhouse is set in the -- where the little yard is for -- MR. WALSTON: Yes. _-^_G-uc 39 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- for the -- MR. WALSTON: There's a tree and there's a sign there for -- the horse project sign. We'll move it down. But it's -- it's sittinq kind of in the corner between Highway 27 and the Extension Office and the arts -- the arts fence. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, it's sitting up next to the Arts and Crafts fence? MR. WALSTON: Yes, sir, it's 8 feet off of the arts fence. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. MR. WALSTON: And 8 feet off the highway fence. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, I see. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. So, it's nearer the highway? MR. WALSTON: It's nearer the highway. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. So, Highway 27 is on the topside of this page? MR. WALSTON: It's on the right side of the page. Highway 27 is on the right side. COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's kind of in between the building and the highway. MR. WALSTON: Yeah. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I got you, okay. 1-~~-u~ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 i7 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 40 MR. WALSTON: It's between the Extension building and the highway. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I got it, okay. MR. WALSTON: And we had to -- we had to -- the propane tank has to be 10 feet from any structure, and so it will be between the Extension Office and the arts fence; there's 10 there. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I have a couple questions. Who's paying for this? MR. WALSTON: The Master Gardeners are paying for the structure. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Who's paying for the installation? They too? MR. WALSTON: They too. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. MR. WALSTON: That's including the installation. JUDGE TINLEY: The only thing you're asking the Court to be responsible for is electricity on an ongoing basis? MR. WALSTON: Yes, sir. Yes, sir. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: What is the relationship between the Kerr County Master Gardeners and the Texas Cooperative Extension? Is this a part of it? MR. WALSTON: It's a part of our -- it's a 1-~6-'~4 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 41 part of our volunteer group. We've got our -- our master volunteer program is -- is a support program of the -- of the County Agents across the county, and we provide them with -- with training, along with resources, materials, some office space, computers, phones, and they help us by coming in and answering questions from people across the county on horticultural questions. And so that's -- they're a major part of my -- COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So, this request for funding from taxpayers' dollars is from the Texas Cooperative Extension? MR. WALSTON: Yes, sir. Basically, it's going towards Texas Cooperative Extension as master -- Master Gardeners is a part of that. JUDGE TINLEY: Roy, if -- if you would, you may not have the facts and figures there with you, but you might give the Court some idea of how that Master Gardener program has grown in the various areas that it serves. MR. WALSTON: As far as statewide? Or just locally? JUDGE TINLEY: Well, both, if you have it. I don't -- county-wide, it's been mushrooming pretty good. MR. WALSTON: If you'd like, I can ask John -- would John like to come up? He -- John Coleman is our -- is our -- is the one in our office that is a program 1-~6-C4 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 42 assistant that helps to coordinate a lot of that, and he's been here since -- since the beginning. So, if you'd like for him to visit with you and kind of bring you up to date about our Master Gardeners, I'd be glad to ask him. John? JUDGE TINLEY: Tell us a little bit about the growth of that program, Mr. Coleman. MR. COLEMAN: Yeah. The first year, we graduated 15 people. Next year, 23. We've had transfers from other states who are master gardeners into the program, and we have 23 now. As of the end of last year, we put in about 3,000 hours of volunteer effort, principally at the Extension Office in answering questions. We've also developed a -- the garden around the front of the office there. COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I guess on my first question, you're probably the best to ask. On the -- I guess for a -- a benefit to the County as a whole, the taxpayers as a whole, I'd be more inclined to go with the proposal if there was a direct benefit. And one of the things that you mentioned in here, kind of -- or mentioned in the letter was, "provide plans for beautification of Kerr County grounds." If that was a -- more than just a -- one of the things you did -- like, basically, if there was a commitment from the Master Gardeners to provide the annual bedding plants around the courthouse, that would be a -- you 1-~h-oq 1 ^ 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 ..-~ 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 43 know, that would offset, to me, the utility. MR. COLEMAN: There is a likelihood that we might be able to do that. COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- I mean, as I look at it, I see that it is clearly a benefit to the Master Gardener program, which that's -- I think that's a program that has merit; I see benefits to the youth. But I'm a little reluctant to go along with a facility that's going to be pretty much used by master gardeners only. I'm not real in favor of building a greenhouse that's going to be, you know, for a very small group to be able to do projects and things that they want. But if they were on the -- in return for getting the greenhouse and the County agreeing to take the utility bills, if there's, like, a commitment to do -- provide the County with plants, that's -- MR. COLEMAN: Could we respond to that once we have some figures? I have no idea what the cost is or numbers of plants, that sort of thing. COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. And I don't -- you know, Maintenance probably keeps an idea of that. Maybe we're getting everything donated already; I'm not sure. But I just think that there's a -- you know, that would be a kind of a quid pro quc to have the master gardeners providing plants and the County using -- we're saving money on one side. 1-~6-09 1 .-- 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 1_ 12 ,_._ 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 ,.-~ 25 44 MR. COLEMAN: We'd certainly be very interested in that. I -- we may not be able to do that the first year, 'cause it's bootleg our way along here. Yes? COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You mentioned that -- that your group is responsible for the garden in front of the building. Isn't that all native plants and -- MR. COLEMAN: It's intended, you know, to be a xeriscape garden; a low-water, low-maintenance type of garden, and it's principally native plants. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And you -- you all use that, the native plants and the low maintenance issues, as a teaching tool? MR. COLEMAN: Yes, sir. And, basically, the purpose of the greenhouse is a -- is a teaching tool also. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Very good. MR. COLEMAN: Not so much for master gardeners. I would like to see us -- we don't have a capability right now of entertaining an effort from the standpoint of educating the kids. And, you know, kids don't respond to lectures and pictures; they respond to doing things. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. MR. COLEMAN: And that's what we would like to have an opportunity to have them do. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. Besides i-~ ~-i,~ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 ~„ 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 ~-.. 25 45 that, looking at the drawings in here, we can probably have a sheep show in that building. (Laughter.) That may be the answer to our problems, is -- is a greenhouse. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mr. Coleman -- MR. COLEMAN: We'll move out the plants for the courthouse first. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The facilities -- the Quonset hut-shaped facility would be covered in the -- what, heavy polyethylene or whatever? MR. COLEMAN: Two layers, yes, sir. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. What happens if the wind whips it up and tears it up? Who's going to repair it? Who's going to maintain it? MR. COLEMAN: We shall. Master Gardeners will. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it -- my other question is -- this may be more for Roy, or both of you. You know, I don't like the location. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm not happy about it either. COMMISSIONER LETZ: And that's -- you know, we -- we just got through receiving a lot of complaints about having an open material yard, and now we're getting ready to put -- I'm very familiar with greenhouses like 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 46 this. They're not ugly, but they're certainly not attractive, and you see through them and you see stuff, and it kind of is there. Anyway, is there another location that you could -- that -- where we could put this? MR. COLEMAN: Wow. The obvious location where I would really like to have it, however, would interfere with the entranceway to the Arts and Crafts area, which would be on the other side of the building. COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. MR. COLEMAN: And we plan to have a visual screen along the highway there. MR. WALSTON: As far as what's available that's left, I mean, there's not -- like I say, if we go to the other side of -- the other end of the building, we're interferir:g with some entrance. If we backed it up, you know, we're just kind of limited there. COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is there a chance -- what about on the -- is there room on the other side of the entrance right-of-way to the arts and crafts, over towards the rodeo arena? 21 22 23 24 .-, 25 there? MR. WALSTON: There's a fence there now. COMMISSIONER LETZ: A fence there? MR. WALSTON: Yeah. There's not -- COMMISSIONER LETZ: There's not enough room _-_~-o~ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 ..--~ 25 47 MR. WALSTON: Not -- COMMISSIONER LETZ: Because of utility poles? MR. WALSTON: There's just not quite enough room. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Does it have to be in -- in close proximity to the Extension Office? MR. COLEMAN: It would be desirable, sir. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Or elsewhere on the ground? MR. WALSTON: That would probably be the best. I mean, that way the people that are -- that are working in the office, answering phones, can also be helping with the -- you know, can be working in the greenhouse as well. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, I'm all for it. MR. COLEMAN: We'd certainly entertain the possibility of somewhere else, but we can -- we have not been able to figure out a better place. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'm not going to support this, and I want to tell you why. I'm aware that the Master Gardener's program does good work. A close friend of mine is a master gardener, and she's very capable and she enjoys her hobby a lot. This is riot a whole lot of money that -- on a yearly basis. It will go on forever. But it violates my principle of not using County taxpayer 1-~6-U4 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 48 dollars to support something that is of benefit to a very small number of people, so I'm not going to be able to support it. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think the suggestion Commissioner Letz had makes a lot of sense. If there's a quid pro quo that comes out of it; i.e., the bedding plants and other materials that the Facilities and Maintenance Department uses annually -- MR. COLEMAN: Mm-hmm. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- here, as an offset to that expense, I think that it would go down a lot easier. MR. COLEMAN: We would be most interested in that. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think we have to get beyond interest, Mr. Coleman. We have to get down to, "We will do that." MR. COLEMAN: I'd be delighted to respond, except I have no appreciation -- my impression is there's not a lot of -- of annuals out around the building, and my first inclination is, sure, we can go ahead and do that, unless there were some hidden somewhere. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mr. Holekamp's in the audience. He can provide you pretty quickly with the number of dollars that he expends annually on flowers, shrubs, plants, so forth and so on. 1-~ 6-~,~ 4 49 1 2 year. 3 4 plants? 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 ,.,.-. 25 MR. HOLEKAMP: Approximately $600 to $700 a MR. COLEMAN: Is that shrubs and bedding MR. HOLEKAMP: Yes, sir. MR. COLEMAN: Okay. Certainly, the bedding plant portion of that, we can certainly do. MR. WALSTON: The one thing I want to impress as much as anything is the amount of -- the need for training in these educational -- the number of contacts these master volunteers make through the telephone calls through our office, you know, and it's critical that the information that we provide is correct. And so, through this training, that's part of what we're trying to do, is -- is training these master gardeners to provide education and provide information to the people here in Kerr County. And a lot of them need, ycu know, this type of training. So, we're -- we're providing it to these 50 people, but those 50 people are basically providing it for hundreds and thousands of others. So, yes, it's -- it's 50 to 75 people that we're working with, but the information that they're providing to these others is -- is critical, and it -- you know, we -- we're trying to give them the best training that we can. COMMISSIONER LETL: I think the -- I mean, and it goes back to -- I don't want to get into a i-~~-a~ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 ,.., 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 .-.. 25 50 disagreemen~ with Commissioner Nicholson; I guess he has had a reluctance to support that Extension Office in other areas as well. I don't think it's a -- a real small area, that office. I think it really supports the entire community. I think it's a very important part of local government. I think it is statewide, and I think we've been very fortunate to have a very strong Extension Office here. The fact that this -- I mean, if you start nitpicking, this may be the Master Gardeners; well, then, there's other things that work with -- you know under -- or families that -- economic needs and family rearing and things like that. So, I mean, if you take the whole Extension Office as a whole, there's very few people in this county that are not affected by them directly. So, you know, I think it's not fair to say, well, these are master gardeners, so we're not going t~ do this. You have to look at who else uses that office. To me, that's not really an issue. To me, the issue is making sure that -- you know, that it's -- that we get a real benefit from it. I think we will, from what -- I think Mr. Colemar_'s done a great job with the Master Gardener's program. I would like a different location, if at all possible. And, you know, there may be a possibility -- it's not that big of a building -- of moving it behind and talking to the Arts and Crafts Foundation, moving it in that enclosed area and, you know, some kind of relationship i-~~-u~ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 „-, 25 51 there. So, I'm -- you know, I'm prepared to go forward with it, but I'm not really prepared to say this is the location until we've really exhausted every other location, 'cause I think it is -- it's not preferable to put between the building and the highway. JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Walston, but for the assistance from the Master Gardeners and their volunteers, the function that they perform in your office, would you or your staff be able tc respond to the inquires on horticulture questions that you get directed to your office? MR. WALSTON: Not in a timely manner. I mean -- JUDGE TINLEY: You can get to them, but it would be way on down the line? MR. WALSTON: It may be weeks. Just like the last week, I wouldn't be able to answer any questions until this next week. And I myself am tied up with doing a lot of other things that I can't be -- it would be way past the -- the immediate contact. MR. COLEMAN: Often in the past, I should say that questions on horticulture were directed to some of the garden centers in town directly. MR. WALSTON: 'Cause they can get that immediate contact. That's what they need. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, I think I -- I 1 - ~ E - 0 4 1 ~. 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 ..-~ 25 52 ccncur with -- I don't think it; I know I concur with what Commissioner Letz is saying. I would support it, but I want to support it after I know that this is the best location for the -- the greenhouse; that there's not a better location on the grounds. We've got 65 acres out there, and that there is and will be a quid pro quo in terms of a program supporting our own horticultural needs here, flower needs, shrub needs and so forth. Not just it's a nice idea, but that it will happen as a quid pro quo. Then I would be prepared to vote on it. MR. WALSTON: information, again, to find going to be needing, and if greenhouse. And, I mean, t adjustments that we may not $600, we could probably -- COMMISSIONER I think that would require some out what -- how much y'all are that's the case, the size of our here may be some other -- you know, I would say for WILLIAMS: That's the reason I think you ought to put it aside till another meeting. JUDGE TINLEY: Is anyone prepared to offer a motion on the matter at this point? COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I am, but I know I won't get a second. But I think their concern is, we don't want people driving down the highway looking at your greenhouse, number cne. Number two, it's going to take you a day to get with Mr. Holekamp to find out how many plants 1-~n-o~ 1 .,,._ 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 ,.... 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 53 we're talking about. Why don't y'all do that and come back at the next meeting? MR. COLEMAN: Okay. JUDGE TINLEY: I think if you'll look at those two areas, location and -- and the offset benefit to Kerr County, come up with something more definite there, why, that will be a matter that we look at again in the future. We thank you. MR. COLEMAN: Who are the parties we should consult with with regards to location? Glenn? COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, Glenn. JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, primarily. Absolutely, yeah. COMMISSIONER LETZ: Glenn, you're the person for them -- you're the point person. MR. WALSTON: Location-wise. MR. HOLEKAMP: Location. COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll be glad to come out there and either meet with you, Mr. Coleman, or Mr. Walston. MR. COLEMAN: An alternate location for the greenhouse. MR. HOLEKAMP: Well, you know, like you said, there's 65 acres out there. But they're in close proximity to the areas where they're going to be -- it's very limited, unless you can talk the Arts and Crafts Fair into moving i-~~-u4 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 54 their yard somewhat. It would make it a little bit easier. The -- the positive about the particular location they have now, it kind of screens that -- the commodes that are sitting out there. (Laughter.) And I'm not sure that the greenhouse isn't more attractive than those surplus commodes. That's personal opinion. So, I kind of approved in my mind of the location, 'cause they've assured me that they were going to keep it very attractive around that greenhouse. They were not going to let it look trashy. So, you know, I -- I would encourage the Court not to say no completely to the site until we have exhausted the other areas. And I'll be glad to meet with anybody, and then maybe -- MR. COLEMAN: Again, I could go ahead and put a visual screen between the greenhouse and the -- and the road if that's a consideration. COMMISSIONER LETZ: Why don't we bring it back next meeting? I'll be glad to come out there and look; we can talk to the Arts and Crafts and see if they have any willingness to -- you know, to use their -- some of their space. And -- MR. COLEMAN: Good. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's funny how different people see things differently. I think a greenhouse is more attractive than a fence, personally. And 1-~E-04 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 ..-. 25 55 I think I just found my second back there. Won't work in here, though. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Pansies in the commodes, Glenn. Ever think about that? MR. HOLEKAMP: That's a possibility. MR. WALSTON: Well, working with these people, I can promise you it will be neat and it'll be attractive. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Good. MR. COLEMAN: Thank you. JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. We have a timed item, so we will move on to that item; it was set for 10 o'clock. Item 6 on the agenda, consideration and discussion of a regaest from Mr. Charlie Eller for the Commissioners Court to reconsider, approve the setting of a public hearing on the subject of authorizing the freezing of ad valorem property tax values on the residential property owners who are elderly or disabled beginning in 2004. MR. EVANS: When will you get to 1.4 and 1.5? JUDGE TINLEY: We've got timed items on the agenda, and if this takes up until 10:30, we will take the 10:30 item, or at least that would be my intention, and then we would come back to the items in the order that they are. But we're going to take the timed items as closely to the time that they're specified for. Mr. Eller? 1-~E-~~ 1 ~^ 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 56 MR. ELLER: Judge, Commissioners, I won't be long. My name's Charlie Eller. My address is still in doubt, but I still live in Greenwood Forest, anyway. In regards to the adoption of the amendment to freeze county taxes, I want to thank Commissioner Nicholson for making a motion to adopt that, even though he didn't get a second. I thank you. The figures show an overwhelming majority, about 87 percent of the people who cared enough to vote, voted to approve this amendment in Kerr County. To fail to implement the amendment is to assume the voters didn't know what they were voting for, and I do not believe that anyone should assume that lack of intelligence on the part of people who cared enough to vote. The amendment will be implemented in Kerr County. It will be through the action of this court or through a petition drive and another election where the voters can again approve the amendment. I ask you to spare the people the effort of a petition drive, and the inconvenience and the $10,000 cost of another election to decide a matter they've already approved. Thank you. JUDGE TINLEY: Does anybody have any questions for Mr. E11er? COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't have any questions, but I have a comment. I mean, and this is -- you know, probably -- we could probably discuss it till we're blue in the face and not totally agree on this point, but to 1-^~-u~ 1 2 3 4 5 E 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 57 me, the election was to get it on the -- to get it from Austin to the counties to make the thing -- the decision. I don't see that the election was a vote to do it. But, you know, that's just the way I read the -- the initiative. It says permit counties to do it; doesn't say counties to do it. If the legislation had meant that constitutional amendment to be the final say, they would have worded it as such, but that's neither here nor there. I think there is clearly an interest in Kerr County. And my reason previously for not seconding the motion was really a lack of information. that I asked for at that last meeting, and I still haven't received, as to what the impact to the County is. That being said, you know, I don't have any problems going forward with a public hearing, but until have I been provided the information as to what the impact is to the taxpayers, I'm still not going to go, you know, the next step to vote for it, because I think the public needs to be aware of that. But, from a standpoint of setting a public hearing, we're past the holiday season; I don't have any problem with doing a public hearing to try to get some public dialogue. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: My question to Charlie -- and you -- you made my point there in your talk -- is when it came up before, I felt -- personally, I felt like are we sure that the public understood what they -~6-04 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 58 approved? Are we sure that the public understands the impact that it's going to have financially on the county? And -- and I had hopes of us having some kind of huge meeting, or we individually go out and visit with folks in smaller meetings to maybe educate and help everyone understand what -- what the impact is going to be. But that's been about a month ago, and I've -- I've given it considerable thought, and it's really not my place to question whether you understand it or not. I'm going to assume that everyone that voted for this issue understood clearly what the financial impact is going to be on the county, so I am prepared today to second and vote for the issue. MR. ELLER: Thank you, Commissioner. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I'm not asking COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: May I make a comment? MR. ELLER: But I don't believe that the people voted for something and expected their County Commissioners to go vote against it, and they support the court decision. I just -- I just -- that doesn't gel with me. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think the important thing is for this Court to know -- not to set a public 1 - ~ b - ~ 4 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 .~-_ 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 59 hearing. U]e can set a public hearing; we do them all the time, and certainly this is important to set a public hearing on. Because if people are as interested as you say, not only those who support your point of view -- and I would be in that same category, so I understand where you're coming from -- but the impact to the county in terms of its revenue stream moving forward, we need to know what that is. And we've asked for more than just ballpark estimates; we need to know that. I've had occasion to talk to other commissioners and judges from surrounding counties, a couple of which have done so -- have enacted it, but they were -- they were unable to tell me what would be the fiscal impact going forward. So, I think it's reasonable for us to know what the fiscal impact is moving forward when it's enacted, because if those same dollars are needed to finance the business of Kerr County from that day forward, somebody has to pick up the tab, and we need to know what we're asking the remainder of the voters to pick up the tab for. That's part of the public hearing. COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think, just to -- I mean, to say it clearly, this -- and, you know, if the public wants it, we can do it, but it's a tax increase for every other citizen in the county, or it's a reduction in services. And knowing Mr. Eller, he'd probably go for the reduction in services, possibly. But -- i-~~~-oq 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 60 MR. ELLER: We got a few surplus. But -- COMMISSIONER LETZ: But, anyway, that's just -- MR. ELLER: -- you can say exactly what's been said here about the other 31 amendments. But, in effect, people know what they're voting for. Let me leave you on a light note. I don't mean to insult you. But if the people who did not vote were against you going into office, would you make that assumption? Or would you make the assumption they were against you being elected? There's only but 15 percent put you in here. COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's true. MR. ELLER: I think they knew what they were doing. Thank you. JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Mr. Eller. COMMISSIUNER LETZ: Thank you, Mr. Eller. JUDGE TINLEY: The agenda item, as framed, requests that the Court approve setting a public hearing on the subject of putting this tax freeze into place. And, you know, debate is healthy. We need to give all sides an opportunity to be heard, and a public hearing, I think, is the place for that to occur. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. JUDGE TINLEY: After everyone has notice that -- what the subject is, and they can come prepared i-~~~-o~ 1 --~ 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 61 with -- with their arguments, their documentation, their facts and figures and data as they so choose. But debate's healthy; that's what we ought to have. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And it may give us the opportunity to be prepared to present actual impact numbers. JUDGE TINLEY: I would hope that some of those that may -- that may step forward on the issue would have that -- that homework done also. I think -- I think that's part of the debate, really. COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think, though, that -- I mean, the county government has that information. We have to pretty much get the information. I mean, the average citizen -- and I think we can ask the Tax Assessor to come up with the best -- she's the keeper of that information, and certainly, I guess, the public can go ask her to do it, but I think it would be helpful if she would make it available, because, I mean, it's something that, you know, everyone just doesn't have at their -- at the home. JUDGE TINLEY: All you need do is ask. She's responded every time I've asked for information. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, what's the date of the public hearing? COMMISSIONER LETZ: I asked, I believe, on December 8th, and I haven't seen anything yet, but -- COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'm going to make a i-?6-u~ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 62 motion. Ms. Sovil, what's the time requirements for notice of a public hearing? MS. SOVIL: Two weeks, generally. Fourteen days prior to the meeting. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'm going to make a motion that the Commissioners Court approve the setting of a public hearing at 10 a.m. on Monday, February 9th, on the subject of authorizing the freezing of ad valorem property tax values on the residential property owners who are elderly or disabled beginning in 2004. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second -- oops. Wait a minute. Beginning in 2004? '5? COMMISSIONER LETZ: Have to give refunds, then. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm asking the MS. RECTOR: You would establish the freeze in '4, which would freeze '05. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, that's what I thought. That's what I would -- MS. RECTOR: But also, it's not values, it's taxes. It doesn't freeze values. It freezes the tax amount, the dollar amount. COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it's real important we get this motion worded exactly right, 'cause y - ~ h - ~ 4 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 03 we're doing taxes, and it's got to be exactly right. MR. MOTLEY: Need to say county taxes. MS. RECTOR: Not values. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: County -- county ad valorem property taxes -- well, county taxes? County ad valorem taxes? (Discussion off the record.) JUDGE TINLEY: Does the publication have to be, the first one, 14 days -- MS. SOVIL: That's exactly 14 days from today. JUDGE TINLEY: The first publication must be -- MS. SOVIL: The -- I don't know on this. You'd have to ask the attorney. COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't know what -- if it's two weeks, 24 hours, 30 days. I don't know. I have no idea if -- MR. MOTLEY: I think it's -- COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- the times change. MR. MOTLEY: -- mentioned in the constitutional -- in the amendments that we -- COMMISSIONER LETZ: I didn't get any backup. MR. MOTLEY: I'll have to check in the amendment and see if it's in there, but I think, normally, i-?E-~~ 1 -- 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 ,g 19 20 21 22 23 24 .-- 25 64 we would want tc give plenty of time. And if it's a month, you know, what we normally give for a long setting is -- COMMISSIONER LETZ: 30 days. MR. MOTLEY: I think that would be a safe way to go right now, without doing a bunch of research on it. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Well, that would put us to the 23rd of February or the 8th of March. JUDGE TINLEY: 23rd of February wouldn't be 30 days, would it? MS. SOVIL: No, sir. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: In regards that -- MS. SOVIL: March the 8th is the day before the election, primary electior_. COMMISSTONER WILLIAMS: That doesn't have any bearing on it. That doesn't have any particular bearing on it. MS. SOVIL: No. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Did I understand you to say that the freeze would be on the 2004 values, but would be on the 2005 taxes? COMMISSIONER LETZ: 2004 taxes. MS. RECTOR: No, 2004 tax amount would establish the freeze, but it would not be effective until '05. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So, this amendment 1 ~6 0~ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 ,~ 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 65 should be changed -- I mean, this resolution should be changed to beginning in 2005? COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Correct. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'll revise the motion to approve the setting of a public hearing at 10 a.m. on March 8th on the subject of authorizing the freezing of ad valorem property taxes on the residential property owners who are elderly or disabled beginning in 2005. COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded. Any further questions or discussion? COMMISSIONER LETZ: Question. And I'm sure it does -- "disabled." I know the elderly are defined as 65 and over. Is there a definition for disabled as well in the tax -- MS. SOVIL: Yes. COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just out of curiosity. Okay. JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. (No response.) JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. 1-?6-~4 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 •-- 25 66 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 10 a.m. on the 8th. JUDGE TINLEY: 10 a.m. on March the 8th. Next item is Item 4 on the agenda, presentation of proposed management of Union Church building and proposed rental schedule for the use of the building, approval of new board members and change of officers, and reminder of 2006 being the 150th anniversary of the founding of Kerr County. Mr. Schellhase. MR. SCHELLHASE: Walter Schellhase, 529 Water Street, Kerrville. Judge, Commissioners, as you know, after five long years, we've finished the total restoration of the Union Church building, which is now located on Schreiner campus, which we have a 25-year lease for the site with Schreiner. The management of this building needs to be determined, decided, and approved. The Commission has gone through several approaches to how this should be done. Back in 1999, when we presented the restoration program to the Commissioners Court, we had a utilization program that was proposed to be done by Main Street Program of Kerrville. As you can see in our Number 1 on the recap sheet, after evaluating this, making the determination this probably was not appropriate, we then went to C.V.B., made that evaluation, which is available, but felt that was not appropriate. We also worked a long time with Schreiner University, of which they had made a proposal to us about i-~~-; ~i 1 --- 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 ...., 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 ~7 the property management, and later that was kind of misunderstood, or not something that we felt the building should be controlled by. Therefore, we settled -- we felt like Kerr County ought to -- Kerr County Commissioners Court ought to take the responsibility for the management, day-to-day, for running and operating this building, ire treat Kerr County Historical Commission has no staff, nor budget, or any facilitator in any way in order to take care of this on a time-to-time basis, such as key control, maintenance, overall oversight, and the maintenance of the building after regular use. So, therefore, we're proposing -- recommending that the Union Church building be managed by the same entities that are now taking care of other County properties. Perhaps the Ag Barn or an entity -- whoever that may be that does the rental for the facility -- of that facility control the key and the reservation process for this building. Routine maintenance, such as electrical or air-conditioning, other type yard work, be maintained or carried on by the County, as it is with other County buildings. The cleaning, such as the dusting, the floors and things after general use, be done by either County staff, community service work, prisoners, or others that might be accessible to the County Agent facilities. The County would collect all the fees and pay -_r"-o~ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 i0 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 ~. 25 68 all the ccsts for the operation of the building, including the utilities and the other simple maintenance -- routine maintenance that might be necessary. It's recommended that the Kerr County Historical Commission remain the oversight committee for the building, from the standpoint of day-to-day observation of what needs to be done or should be done from time to time, and make a recommendation to the Court as required. It is recommended that the County -- the Historical Commission be allowed to use the building on a routine basis, which would be the third Monday of each month from 11:45 to 2:30, at no charge for conducting that county business, and that the Friends of the Historical Commission, which is the fundraising arm for that group, be allowed to use the budding on the Monday preceding the Commissioners Court -- the Historical Commission's meeting. With that, we recommend attached -- which we provided a fee schedule for this building which is in line with the methods of which Schreiner University now uses the building, cr other facilities. They do not have an hourly rate, of which we felt like was needed, in that there are many, many meetings that take place within the community whir_h short -- are short-term, and a whole day use would not be justified. So, therefore, we submit the schedule as you have attached. In that fee schedule, we're recommending that all school programs, tour programs, and county _-_~-~~ 1 .- 2 3 4 5 e 7 8 9 10 11 12 ,._. 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 .-~ 25 69 facility -- county organizations be allowed to use the building free; Schreiner University be allowed to use the building free, based on their lease which we have with them, which provides for that use. Nonprofit organizations and 501(c)(3) certified organizations be allowed to use it for half of these indicated fees. The fees -- there would be a $100 deposit for anyone in order to get on the calendar to use the facility. Thirty days before the event, the bill must be paid in full; no refunds after that date. If an event's been scheduled long-range, 60 days in advance, then we recommend that the full refund be made in the event the event has to be canceled. With that, we request the approval or amendments or suggestions from the Court as to how this may be done. This has been coordinated with Commissioner Williams on several meetings, of which we've ironed it down to this proposal. JUDGE TINLEY: Question. MR. SCHELLHASE: Yes, sir? JUDGE TINLEY: You're talking about cancellation on the last item there, 60 days or more before the event, full refund. Within 60, no refund. Is that what you -- is that your intention there? MR. SCHELLHASE: Yes. JUDGE TINLEY: It doesn't seem to state that, but I think that's what you said. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 ~o COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Walter -- I'm sorry, go ahead. COMMISSIONER LETZ: General, the -- what are the, I guess, types of uses that you see for this building? I guess what I'm thinking, the -- a logical use for that facility would be a small wedding. And -- but I also see a small wedding would be a very -- probably a hard use of the facility. And, you know, a lot of time and money went into the renovation. Do you have any guidance as to how you or the Historical Commission feels about what the type of use should be? MR. SCHELLHASE: Well, I'm passing out to you the current schedule. COMMISSIONER LETZ: I see weddings. MR. SCHELLHASE: With regards to the type use, the Republican Women's Club have asked to use the building or_ January the 30th. March the 9th, the County Clerk has asked for an election polling place. A wedding is scheduled for March 12th; 13th, Schreiner University asked for the building. From April 4th to April the 13th, runoff election by the County Clerk. July, a wedding -- July the 29th, a wedding. October 24th, a renewal of vows. So that's some of the indicators of what -- in that it is a County building, I think Commissioner Baldwin made a motion at one time that we hold the meeting out there, and we were i-?E.-u~ 1 ..-. 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 71 quickly overruled because of being an off-site court meeting. So, just any number of uses. There's been several others that we've had. The Republican -- the Confederate Women have held a meeting out there. There's been several fundraisers by the Friends of the Commission. out there. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me ask you a question. MR. SCHELLHASE: One wedding already. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: In this same vein, is -- of course, it's a church; I understand that. MR. SCHELLHASE: It's a church building. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's a church building. Okay, good. That's good. What are your thoughts -- your personal thoughts on religious organizations using that facility? MR. SCHELLHASE: One of the proposals that we had in the original utilization plan for management by the Main Street Program, and we had a proposal by a religious group at Schreiner University to use the building on a regular basis each Gdednesday afternoon, of which they had tentatively planned -- pledged $20,000 for the restoration, of which we wholly approved. Since that time, that group has moved on. So, we -- we have no problems with the use of it as a church facility for somebody that wanted to use it for that purpose. 1- E-04 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 1~ 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 ~-. 25 72 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Religious? MR. SCHELLHASE: Yeah, religious. We continue to stress that this is a church building. It was never a church, organize -- organized facility, as such. Because the four groups that met there originally used it as their particular facility at that time, so a particular religious sect was never part of that program. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What about something like the Second Order of the Snake Handlers and Poison Drinkers Church of America? MR. SCHELLHASE: Yeah. If they have $200, they get it for the day. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see. Okay. Well, what about -- what about the same kind of line of questioning for political parties, functions? MR. SCHELLHASE: I think wholeheartedly, yes, indeed. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree, 'cause I'm going to use it in a couple of weeks to have a town hall meeting with a Commissioner. And, of course, it's free because I'm county. MR. SCHELLHASE: I don't know if you're county or not; we'd have to look more closely. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, I am. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Couple questions 1 - ~ 6 - . 4 1 2 3 4 5 6 .~ 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 73 under Special Users and Fees. You have County, schools, and tours, no charge. That would mean a tour bus that came in and made a stop just to see the facility; is that correct? MR. SCHELLHASE: Yes. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And use the facility? MR. SCHELLHASE: Not use the facility, tour the facility. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And use the facility? MR. SCHELLHASE: No, not use. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And use the facility's facilities? MR. SCHELLHASE: Use the facility's facilities? I guess that would be appropriate, yes. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And we would not -- we would not -- MR. SCHELLHASE: There would not be a fee for that. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- charge the tour operator any part of -- anything? MR. SCHELLHASE: Right. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second, we have Schreiner university. Do we have any feel for how often they may desire to use it? MR. SCHELLHASE: The university established the fact that this was going to be considered an off-campus 1-~6-U4 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 ,.-.. 25 74 facility in the early stages of our negotiation of the lease. The intent was -- and the suggestions made by the alumni director at that time, this would be used for what Schreiner considers off-site activities, such as if a department director wanted to meet off-site with his teachers or professors, they could come to this facility, which would be convenient, local, and be considered off-site. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And that's -- that's kind of the quid pro quo for the ground lease which we have with them for 25 years? MR. SCHELLHASE: Yes. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just one other quickie, and that has to do with who's doing the booking. You talk about the -- in your overview proposal, talk about the Ag Barn. That booking function is the Facilities and Maintenance Department, and I believe our -- our young lady who handles that is now a resident in the Extension Office. Am I correct, Glenn? MR. HOLEKAMP: Yes, sir. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And i_s there a special phone number for that? MR. HOLEKAMP: Yeah, we have that. Booking phone is there. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just so they know. 1-~6-4 1 .-1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 75 JUDGE TINLEY: This, obviously, is going to significantly impact our Facilities Superintendent and his staff, based upon the proposal that -- that's been presented here. And I guess the question, number one, to Mr. Holekamp is, have you had adequate opportunity to review this proposal yourself and with your staff? And, secondly, if you have had adequate opportunity and possibly even discussed it with the -- with the Historical Commission people, what are your thoughts, pro or con or otherwise? MR. HOLEKAMP: I have not seen it or discussed it with anyone. I have some concerns, most definitely with the -- not necessarily -- the booking part of it probably is something that can be done between 8:00 and 5:00. But when you start talking about cleaning and sitting there and waiting for the meeting to be over to close the building up, opening it up for a tour and cleaning the bathrooms after 60 people have been -- on a bus have gone through the bathrooms, I will assure you that this is going to require hours and hours of maintenance and custodial work. And -- and I tell you what, is after the -- most meetings are after 5:00. So, I would -- I'm just -- from that, I would assume that we're going to have to have sortie on-site people there at night, so those are things that I have not looked at; I have not studied. I -- I really need to look at it, and I would -- there, again, the Court i-_~-.,~ 1 ~--- 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 76 has the right to do as they wish, but I would really make -- I think there needs to be some numbers plugged into what it's going to take to maintain, and I guess to manage the -- the facility itself. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are you currently maintaining it? MR. HOLEKAMP: No, sir. That's why I'm saying I have to study what it's going to impact. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I understand, but who's cleaning up out there now? MR. SCHELLHASE: What Glenn is saying is 100 percent true, because that's now being done by volunteers from the Historical Commission. We go out and mop the floors, pick up the trash, and change the paper in the paper holders and the towels and that sort of thing. COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the -- the County directed -- probably accepted the responsibility to do this when we, you know, accepted the proposal to locate the building on that facility. And I think -- you know, so I see that there's an obligation there that we have to work out something here. But I also recall that the -- I guess the agreement was -- the discussion at the time was this would not cost the taxpayers anything, so we need to be very careful that we can set up a -- a fee structure that is -- that'll cover the cost. And I think, you know, Glenn is the i-26-Oc 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 ..-. 25 77 one that, you know, really needs to look at that, figure out exactly how much time goes in there. Because -- and I really think he probably needs to -- I hate to defer it, but come back at our next meeting, after we really are sure that the dollars and the numbers are all going to work out, and really look at the idea of these -- I don't know how many tour buses would come in that would want to stop at that facility, and I -- I'm a little hesitant to say they can go in at no cost, because I think they're -- it's a -- clearly, there will be a couple of hours of maintenance personnel, plus the cleaning time if they go in. And if it's raining outside and mud tracks in, I mean, we all know how that would happen. But I think that we have to figure out a way to do this, and I think we just need to, you know, plug in some numbers from the maintenance side and see how that's going to mesh with the fee structure. And, you know, make a decision and accept it, 'cause I think we are obligated to do it. JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Holekamp? MR. HOLEKAMP: The only other comment I'd have is -- is -- and I just listened to the fee structure that Mr. Schellhase went through, and I -- I would imagine it -- just my hunch would be is that once the word gets out that this building is free to use for a lot of these meetings and that sort of thing, it's going to be used very, i - E - O 4 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 78 very much. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't see "free" here, except to County and Schreiner and school. I don't see free to the general public. MR. SCHELLHASE: It's not free to the public. MR. HOLEKAMP: G7e11, what I'm talking about is, like, Schreiner College, you -- you made it -- it's free to them; is that correct"? MR. SCHELLHASE: Yes, sir. MR. HOLEKAMP: Do they have to book it like everybody else? MR. SCHELLHASE: Yes. MR. HOLEKAMP: Okay. COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think those are the details that we need to work out. MR. HOLEKAMP: I think so. COMMISSIONER LETZ: The booking. I think, you know, we'li just have to work through that part of it. MR. SCHELLHASE: What we're giving you is a starter. COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. JUDGE TINLEY: Appreciate that. COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the other thing that needs to be put into the puzzle -- this is really for Glenn -- is that there will be regular major maintenance of 1-zE-o~ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 ,.,_, 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 79 that facility, and hopefully not for five years or so, but at some point, it's got to get repainted again; other things are going to have to happen. I think we need to -- in the fee structure, we need to be able to have enough money that they can go into a fund that then can be used back for that building, so that it doesn't come out of our general budget when something has to be done from a -- you know, a major maintenance down the road. And it's a -- just basic planning. We'll need to allow for that as well. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mr. Schellhase, one other question. You're -- you're asking us -- and I'm almost there, ready to agree with you. You're asking us to do the booking, do the maintenance, do the cleaning -- MR. SCHELLHASE: Collect the fees. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Collect fees. That would be part of booking. And then, at the end of that, you said, but we -- the Historical Commission would like to still be in control. Or I don't -- what did I hear you say? MR. SCHELLHASE: What the Historical Commission is recommending is that we remain your oversight, your eyes and ears on the building. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What does that mean exactly? MR. SCHELLHASE: To tell you when something needs to be done or hasn't been done or should be done. In i-~ ~-e,~ 1 .- 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 „_, 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 ,-,. 25 80 that -- in that there will be a weekly meeting at the building with the Historical meeting -- Commission, and a weekly meeting with the Friends, so that will be the only group that will be meeting there on a regular, sustained basis to know if the building is being maintained or taken care of. And that doesn't even have to be done, you know. It's just the fact that we're there. We felt like it would be good for you to have someone that is looking at the building on a regular basis. COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I think the -- I mean, clearly, if there's something that needs to be fixed and you're there, we'd want to know that. MR. SCHELLHASE: Right. COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's all you're saying, I think. MR. SCHELLHASE: That's our thinking, yeah. Not from the standpoint of booking or money collections or seeing how it's to be used or not to be used. COMMISSIONER LETZ: All right. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I really think the proper way to do this thing -- and I'm on this, ready to vote on it, but I think it would be more appropriate for Glenn to put together some more thoughts, to come back to the next meeting and do it at that time. JUDGE TINLEY: I definitely think that our i-~ ~,-o~ 1 ~-- 2 3 4 5 6 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 ~--~ 25 81 Facilities Manager needs to have a significant input in this entire process. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I agree. MR. HOLEKAMP: Can I get a copy of the proposal? COMMISSIONER LETZ: Sure. MR. SCHELLHASE: Sure can. Item Number 2. Joe Herring, Chairman of the Historical Commission, which was a two-year selection, resigned. And to inform the Court, the first vice president, Rayne Haney, has moved up to the chairmanship. Ann Bethel, the second vice chairman, has moved up to the first vice chairman, and there's no plans at this time to elect a new second vice chairman. New participants on the Commission are Mike Bolin, Kathryn Mitchell, and Paul Parks, for your information. Third item, we would like to remind the Court that 2005 -- 2006 will be the 100th anniversary of Kerr County. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 100th? How about 150? MR. SCHELLHASE: 150th anniversary of Kerr County. And if there's going to be any activities planned -- certainly, if it's going to involve Commissioners Court -- the Historical Commission, we would like to know well in advance. So, as those plans are developed by the Court, we would like to be kept posted on them. Comfort has i-~6-~~ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 82 started theirs a year ago. Theirs, I believe, is 2005. MR. HOLEKAMP: This year. COMMISSIONER LETZ: This year. It will be this September. MR. SCHELLHASE: They started well over a year ago, have a lot of activity going on, so it might be a guide for the Court. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is that Comfort or Kendall County? COMMISSIONER LETZ: Comfort. MR. SCHELLHASE: Comfort. COMMISSIONER LETZ: I believe they've -- it's a weekend in September, I believe. MR. HOLEKAMP: September. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, the officers -- you have two officers? How do they vote? MR. SCHELLHASE: Beg pardon? COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: How do they vote, if you only have two people? MR. SCHELLHASE: We still have the same -- all the rest of the officers are the same as they were. These are just the changes that took place. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see what you're saying, okay. But you're not going to have a second vice chairman? 1-~h-r~~ 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 1~ 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 ~. 25 83 MR. SCHELLHASE: No. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are you looking to the Court for ideas in terms of what a -- a sesquicentennial celebration's all about? MR. SCHELLHASE: All I need is part of -- COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Or come back here MR. SCHELLHASE: No, we're just putting it on the calendar to remind everyone that it is a significant event for Kerr County, and we don't want the Commissioners Court to forget it. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Very good. COMMISSIONER LETZ: On that point, I mean, I would toss the ball back in your court. I think it's a private sector event, or should be a private sector event more than a public. I think there's some resolutions or other things we can do for public awareness, but I know Comfort set up a -- a committee to get going, and I don't know if that's going on, but it's certainly -- you know, to me, as a Commissioner, I'd look to someone in the community to -- you know, trying to get a handle on this and start organizing it. I don't think that's something that the county government should be -- sticuld do. MR. SCHELLHASE: I agree. JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else on this - ~ o - U 9 1 ~-- 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 .._. 25 84 particular agenda item? Any member of the Court have a motion you wish to offer? MR. SCHELLHASE: Thank you. JUDGE TINLEY: Lacking that, we have a timed item at 10:30 that we're late on. If that's -- if that's going to take a considerable period of time, I'd like to give our court reporter a break and take a recess and come back and start on that. It might be better to do that, anyway. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Why don't you get that out of the way? Why don't you get 1.5 out of the way? MR. EVANS: I'm at 1.5; I think mine will only take a minute. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It will take longer than that, 'cause have I some questions for you. JUDGE TINLEY: You think it'll take longer than just a moment, Commissioner Baldwin? COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, is a minute 60 seconds? Or -- JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I just -- I just want him to tell us when he's walking in the courthouse, exactly what he's going to use, when he's walking out of the courthouse and those kinds of things. JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. _~-n~ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 85 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's unclear in the -- COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It is unclear, the date, hours. MR. EVANS: Could the chairman -- could a Commissioner -- Judge, could we postpone this agenda item to your next meeting? COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't know why we can't handle it. MS. SOVIL: 23rd -- I mean 8th of March. JUDGE TINLEY: 8th of March? That's going to be -- MS. SOVIL: Sorry, 9th of February. COMMISSIONER LETZ: 9th of February. MR. EVANS: We've got a long time till March 27th, so this is not an urgent matter, but I'd be perfectly happy to come back on the next Commissioners meeting. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We could be almost through with it by now if we'd just done it. JUDGE TINLEY: Let me go ahead and call it; we'll get it out of the way and let you get on down the road. Item 5, consider and discuss request to use of courthouse for Democratic County Convention. If you'd try to present that to us as quickly as you could, please, sir. MR. EVANS: I'm speaking on behalf of Dot 1-~6-0~ 1 .- 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 86 Larimer, our county chair, who was unable to be here. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What is your name? The court reporter doesn't know your name. MR. EVANS: I'm Maury Evans with the Kerr County Democratic Executive Committee. I'm speaking on behalf of Dot Larimer, who's our county chair. We would like to use the same room that we did last time, under the same conditions we did in 2002, starting at 9 o'clock. We anticipate that we would be through in that same day. I'm almost positive we would be through by noon, but there's a possibility we could go into the afternoon, but extremely unlikely that it can go on beyond that same day. We've had those meetings that lasted as short as 30 minutes, and the longest one has taken, at most, two hours. We would not require anything but the use of the room. We would not be serving any beverages, or arty other use of the room other than just having a meeting, making our motions, electing our delegates, and then removing ourselves from the building. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What's the date of that meeting? MR. EVANS: March 27th. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 3/27. And what room are we talking about? MR. EVANS: The Commissioners Courtroom, 198th. i-~~-oq 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 87 JUDGE TINLEY: I think it's County Court at Law, isn't it? MR. EVANS: County Court at Law. JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. MR. EVANS: That's the same one we used last year. JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. MR. EVANS: Last time in 2002. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is that -- what day of the week is the 27th? MS. SOVIL: Saturday. COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's a Saturday? MR. EVANS: Saturday, yes. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And then what happens, Glenn, do you trot up here from the house and open and close? MR. HOLEKAMP: Yes, sir. JUDGE TINLEY: You'll be here anyway, though, won't you, with the other convention? Aren't both conventions held on the same day? MS. SOVIL: Yes. MR. HOLEKAMP: Is that correct? MS. SOVIL: Yes. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: March 27th, yes. 1-2~-U4 1 .- 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 ,.-- 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 88 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yes. JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The Republican convention will be upstairs. MS. SOVIL: Yes. JUDGE TINLEY: And they understand they clean up behind themselves. We assume that you would do the same. MR. EVANS: Yes, we would pick up all of the papers, et cetera. I don't think there's been any complaints in the past that I know of. JUDGE TINLEY: I'm not aware of any from either group, are you, Mr. Holekamp? MR. HOLEKAMP: No. The only -- the reminders of the food and drink thing in these courtrooms, it's -- I really discourage it. Plus the signs on the outside discourage it. COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll make a motion that we approve the request for the -- on March 27th to hold the Democratic county convention. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to approve the request for holding the Democratic county convention in County Court at Law on March 27th of this year, generally the hours as outlined. Any further questions or discussion? All in favor of the motion, 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 .-, 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 89 signify by raising your right hand. (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. (No response.) JUDGE TINLEY: We'll stand in recess until MR. EVANS: Thank you. (Recess taken from 10:46 a.m. to 11:00 a.m.) JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let's come back to order, if we could, please. We will resume the special Commissioners Court meeting scheduled for this date, Monday, January 26th. We took a break at about a quarter to 11:00. It's now a couple minutes after 11:00. The next item on the agenda was a timed item for 10:30, Item Number 9, consider and discuss the January 7, '04 offer from Mooney Airplane Company to revise and extend the lease between Mooney and Kerr County and the City of Kerrville for the Mooney facilities located at the Kerrville/Kerr County Airport, commonly known as Louis Schreiner Field. Commissioner Nicholson. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Each -- each of us got a copy of a letter from Mr. Nelson Happy, the president of Mooney Aircraft -- Mooney Airplane Corporation, proposing revisions and -- and extension of the lease that Mooney 1-z~-o9 1 ^ 2 3 4 5 6 7 ~3 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 ,.--~ 25 90 Aircraft -- Mooney Airplane Corporation has at Louis Schreiner Field. Mr. Dewey Li~-ingston was instrumental in drafting this proposal. Mr. Livingston is a -- is a former Mooney president and a member of our community for some 35 or 40 years, I think, and he asked to be on the agenda to address and endorse the proposal which was made by Mooney Airplane Corporation. Mr. Livingston? MR. LIVINGSTON: Gentlemen, I was asked about three months ago by Nelson Happy if I would intervene into the problem of the lease arrangement between Mooney, the County, and the City, because there had been so much controversy, which it appeared that it was not going to be easily remedied. At that time, Mooney had been searching for a possible location to relocate from Kerrville, and five different locations were under consideration. I would like for everybody to know and understand that I accepted this crusade from Mooney on a no-cost basis. I'm not necessarily representing Mooney, but rather, I'd like to refer to I represent both Mooney, the County, and the City, because what is good for Mooney will be good for the County and the City, and vice-versa. I feel that way. I first started assessing the buildings at Mooney some time ago, and made a report accordingly, and I think most of you -- you fellows have copies of that report. There has been excessive damage on a lot of the buildings, particularly the roof, which has 1-~~-0~ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 ...- 25 91 been a lot of hail damage over the years. And every building, with the exception of one, is leaking. One building has been -- the roof has been repaired by the Dopp administration when they were there, but all other buildings are leaking, anywhere from seeing large holes in the roof to putting drip buckets under drips. One building in particular, Building Number 17, as you drive up to the parking lot, the first building on the left, it's a wood structure building. That is the only building that I climbed up on the roof personally to look at it. It's all wood. The roof is asbestos shingles and rolled roofing. It was very apparent that it has sustained hail damage for many years. It has never been repaired, obviously. It leaks terribly inside the building; in some cases, large holes in the roof, but the building itself is -- basically appears to be thoroughly sound. It has all wood paneling on the inside, a number of offices, approximately 12, maybe 14,000 square foot, nice size building. I would like to suggest to the Court that you consider fixing this building up, replacing the roof -- my estimate would be about $100,000 -- and possibly using this for the airport terminal, rather than spend $600,000 or $700,000 for a new building. It's a decent building. In my many discussions with different people, it has been suggested, well, it needs to be bulldozed down. I urge you, 1-~5-r4 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 .~-.. 25 92 gentlemen, don't let this happen. The building can be used. If it can't be used for the air terminal, it could be fixed And, speaking of damage on buildings, Mooney pays the insurance premium on these buildings. Whether -- whether there has been claims against the damage of buildings by Mooney is undetermined, but I think triere needs to be some surveillance by both City and County that will surveil storm damage on all these buildings after a storm to see what damage is done, and will Mooney -- or whoever it is in charge at that time -- will Mooney see that damage is repaired by insurance claims. I have the feeling that, in the past, insurance claims could have been filed and certain people would have put the money into their pocket, and/or claims were never filed, azid just ignored the damage. It's one or the other. But I urge you to come up with some type of a plan to surveil the insurance for Mooney, and all the buildings. I've talked to many people in this three-month time; all of the ccuncilmen from the city, the City Manager. I never got to talk to the mayor, because I was never able to reach him by phone. I've talked to the -- the president of the Chamber of Commerce, as well as a lot of business people, drumming up support for Mooney. Mooney is -- has right now got 180 people. They're building about 1-~ 6-~ ~ 1 2 3 4 5 E 7 8 9 10 11 12 ,_ 13 14 1~ 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 ..-- 25 93 four airplanes per month, and during 2004, this year, they're going to try to go to six a month. They can go -- they can build more airplanes if they can market them. The general aviation market on sales of aircraft has been very soft for a lot of years, and I have no reason to believe but what it's going to continue to be soft because of what our country is faced with. However, if Mooney could increase their work force, say, 50, 100 percent, that would be a real shot in the arm for the county and the city, having 300 to 400 people on the payroll. That's what we need to look at, I think, in lieu of adding dollars to the lease agreement. The lease agreement now is $1,450 a month, and by the letter from Mooney, they ask that it continue to be $1,450 a month for the full term of the 30 years. I ask the Court t~ c:onsider some other possible solutions rather than dollars and cents. Why can't we offer Mooney an incentive that could be spread over the years to do some repair work on the roofs which is badly needed, in lieu of some lease dollars and cents, after the ten-year period? It'll take a number of years, in my opinion, to fix the roofs if Mooney was to do this, because of the added expense. In my opinion, the roofs now -- right now can be fixed, or at least prolonged if we would see that action is taken in the next year or two. The longer it's put off, the more it's going to cost somebody. Mooney has 1-~r-U4 1 ^ 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 94 already expressed to me -- Nelson, that is -- that he cannot and will not replace any more roofs. They're replacing one right now. It's a great expense to replace the roofs in those large buildings, but I think a repair is absolutely mandatory, and I urge the Court to effect some type of wording into the lease arrangement that would be an incentive for Mooney, providing they stay here. Why don't we set our minds with the gamble for Mooney to stay here and to build up a force greater than what it is today? In order to gamble, though, we're going to have to exercise good judgment on the lease or the extension. I urge the Court to finish up a 30-year lease with an incentive for fixing the roof over maybe 10, 15 years, plus at the end of a 10-year period, with the words, "review by a three-man force," one from each entity; Mooney, the Court -- County Court and City, to review the nation's economy, the airplane production and sales, and let that three-man team pass judgment on whether it is feasible to increase the lease for the continuing time, or whether it's to stay as-is. I particularly emphasize this three-man team in order to keep it out of the politics of the whole court and -- and the council. What if Mooney happens to go down in the next 10 years? Let's face it, it could happen. It has happened before. It has happened for many reasons, one of which is the lack of finance, and I can particularly tell 1-~6-~4 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 95 you that myself, what that means. You don't build airplanes without financing. You don't get financing unless you've got county and city support behind you. That's an absolute must. Right now, the 30-year lease is to be finished up, if so, so that Mooney can supply to the finance people that they've already borrowed $5 million from that we now -- we, Mooney -- now have a 30-year lease. The $5 million was borrowed some time ago in December, early, I believe, to pay off the taxes, which is over $700,000, hookup to the sewer, which was undetermined at that time as to what it would cost. They finally got it done by contract of $50,000, which was quite reasonable. As of today, I understand that they still don't have the final results on the testing of the chemical solution, et cetera, but it is forthcoming. I don't think there's any reason, however, to wait on that; that it's causing any problems other than possible certain people expected it to be done months ago and it didn't happen. But it takes money, gentlemen, to make those things happen, and they didn't have it. What if Mooney does go down, whatever the reason it may be, sometime during the next ten years? And, gentlemen, this could happen. They'll end up with a lot of empty buildings for both the City and the County, and those buildings primarily was built for airplane manufacturing. I 1-z~-~~ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 96 don't mean to imply that nothing else could work there, 'cause it could with some adaptation, but the City, County, and school would lose a lot of taxes that Mooney's now paying. I think we need to think about those things, not the inevitable. Hopefully, it ain't going to happen, but it surely could. Gents, I want to cite to you a little example that really has nothing to do with Mooney, but it could. And I'm about through, Judge. JUDGE TINLEY: I'm not rushing you, Dewey. MR. LIVINGSTON: Sir? JUDGE TINLEY: I'm not rushing you. MR. LIVINGSTON: Thirty years ago, I notified Mooney that I was leaving. No particular date I set. If you want to set a date, fine. They didn't. They said, "Stay as long as you will." In the meantime, I started my own company. Within four or five, six months, I utilized all of those people for the most part that was working at Mooney when I shut it down. I shut Mooney down because there was no money to build airplanes. Butler, the parent company, almost went under. The company that I built was Texas Products Manufacturing, a very profitable company. It was innovation of building chassis for racing snowmobiles with aircraft technology. It was a very profitable company. I sold the company in the fourth year. Within one year after I sold the company, it was moved to San Antonio, and i-~n-n~ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 97 23 do it. 24 ,_.. 25 i-~~-u~ MR. LIVINGSTON: Yes, sir. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Rather than being not one person in the county or city went to try to appeal the case. Not one. We had 100 people working there, and almost overnight, the decision was made to move out. 125,000 square feet of machine equipment was moved out to San Antonio. I site that only as an example of what could happen. Let's don't let it happen. Thank you, gentlemen. JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Mr. Livingston. We appreciate it. Any questions for Mr. Livingston? COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't have any questions. I have a couple comments, though, Judge, with regard to the situation. Dewey, thank you for being here and thank you for your interest. I'm reading a quote from your paper that you gave us, and in that you say, "It should not be reasonable to expect the new owners of Mooney to fix all the building and maintenance problems that have been allowed to accumulate over 50 years." I suspect that is the manner of your speech in which you were trying to say don't lay the sins of the parents off on the children. Well, by the same token, if my reading of the lease agreements that have existed down through the years is correct, a lot of that maintenance -- most of that maintenance should have been done by the owners at the time that it was necessary to 1 2 3 4 5 E 7 8 9 10 li 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 ~9 20 21 22 23 24 25 98 left to accumulate for 50 years cf deterioration. MR. LIVINGSTON: That's right, sir. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Am I correct? MR. LIVINGSTON: That's right. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, we do have a problem, and we have to figure out how to address it. MR. LIVINGSTON: Yes, sir. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Whether or not it is the taxpayers who address it directly, because it is a jointly-owned facility by the City and the County, that remains yet to be determined. There are some ways to do that so that the immediate burden of doing that is not on the taxpayers, and I've suggested it many times, and somehow or other it seems to fall on deaf ears. But there's a lot of sales tax on a lot of airplanes being paid in a lot of places other than Kerr County. One would wonder whether or not some of that sales tax that is paid on the purchase of an aircraft, that is levied and benefits other political jurisdictions outside of Kerr County, and perhaps for the most part outside of the state of Texas, whether they're -- whether or not that is a source that might be considered to do some of these things. Having said that, let me just -- let me just say this. I know this Court will be diligent about its deliberations. I'm confident of that. I know that we also 1 - ~ 6 - C 4 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 .~ 25 99 keep upperm.cst in our mind economic development. Economic development for Kerr County, Kerrville, the airport. We also keep uppermost in our minds the value of 180 jobs. Well-paying jobs, good-paying jobs. And I don't think that anybody on this bench is of a mind to want to see that go away, although we are constantly threatened with that as a possibility, and you reminded us about three times in your comments that that is always a possibility. So, that guillotine seems to always hang over our heads. MR. LIVINGSTON: That's right. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Somebody other than us has the ability to cut the cord and make the guillotine fall. But, in conclusion, I just want to say that I -- I know this Court will deliberate and come to some conclusions as to what we think is a reasonable approach to solve this particular problem over the long haul. MR. LIVINGSTON: Any other questions I may be able to answer? COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- well, I'll just make a general comment. I appreciate the interest that you've shown in coming to the court today and presenting -- you know, talking with us in your presentation and previous conversations with you. But I think the -- you know, the next step is that the City and the County and Mooney need to sit together and, because of the nature of it, probably L-_E-o- 1 -- 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 ,_._ 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 100 under a, you know, a less open manner. You can't negotiate a lease in front of the press and everybody else. And I just think we need to go to that next step. And, to me, the next step is -- I think it's on the agenda for later today, as a matter of fact. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's on the agenda. COMMISSIONER LETZ: To meet with the City and talk about it amongst ourselves. So, I think we're progressing, and I think, certainly, you know, this Commissioner wants to keep Mooney in Kerr County. So -- MR. LIVINGSTON: I would like to answer your question, Bill, in regard to the sales of aircraft versus tax -- taxes. When they sell airplanes all over the world, they have to pay taxes to the country where that airplane is going. I've been through this already to investigate that, like, why? You know. If they -- if they sell an airplane that's going to stay here, obviously, they collect the taxes. There's a couple airplanes, as a matter of fact, that the first of next month that's going to Africa, and they have to pay taxes in Africa. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I understand that, Dewey, but what about the United States, the jurisdictions of the United States? I'm not talking about foreign soil. MR. LIVINGSTON: Yes, I understand that. You're right. You're right. And the more they can build _-~~-o~ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 101 and sell locally, the more taxes will be generated. You are quite right, sir. JUDGE TINLEY: I think, under the present law, if the customer -- the purchaser decides to take delivery of that aircraft in Nevada, the purchaser can make that election; the aircraft can be delivered in Nevada, and there's no tax incidence in the state of Texas as a result of the sale of that aircraft. MR. LIVINGSTON: Yes. JUDGE TINLEY: If I understand the law correctly. MR. LIVINGSTON: That's right. JUDGE TINLEY: So, what we're talking about, to try and impose some sort of a sales tax incidence, for example, in the state of Texas, would require legislative action, maybe even congressional action, in order to resolve that. MR. LIVINGSTON: That's a good thought, if it could be done. 'Cause there will be an enormous -- lots of tax on a $400,000 airplane. JUDGE TINLEY: Sure is. Doesn't take long to -- it's about 25 grand an aircraft. MR. LIVINGSTON: I possibly left off an important item, if I may. JUDGE TINLEY: Surely. i-~6-C4 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 102 MR. LIVINGSTON: With the buildings that's being turned back to the County and City, it's a step in the right direction for Mooney. I spent several days out there evaluating the utilization of space, et cetera, all over -- all over the place in the different buildings, and ultimately, I convinced Mooney they had too many buildings; they need to turn back buildings and land, the paint shop being the last one. And I think their letter says within a year. And I might throw this out to you for your edification. Mooney is looking at a paint shop that is in -- in use now in another city close by that has waterfall paint booths in it. The building could be moved intact to the airport here at Mooney, which would enable them to turn loose of the old airport -- I mean the old paint shop, which would be the final end of turning over almost half of the land that's under their lease. They are not taking any action on this paint shop until a lease is consummated. I'm sorry, I neglected to point that out. JUDGE TINLEY: I appreciate you bringing that back. MR. LIVINGSTON: Any other questions? COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I appreciate, Dewey, the -- the historical perspective that you provide and the knowledge of the industry that you provide, and that will be useful to us, very useful to us. And my -- my primary 1-.6-C4 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 l4 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 103 motivation in dealing with this is to maintain and enhance those 180 jobs out there. They are -- MR. LIVINGSTON: Good. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: -- critically important to Kerr County, and I want to do -- I want to do what we can do reasonably to help Mooney stay in business here in Kerr County. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I agree. JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Livingston, I want to thank you for your interest and your efforts. I realize that it's pretty much a thankless task; you're getting shot at from both ends, and you're not getting any compensation for doing it. And I -- I'd prefer that you not go up on any more of those buildings, though. I'd hate like the dickens for you to fall ott one of them. MR. LIVINGSTON: I didn't get up on any of JUDGE TINLEY: I really appreciate your interest and your efforts, and I know your motivation is to try and keep Mooney as an economic generator in this county, and none of us know what the future's going to bring. MR. LIVINGSTON: Right. JUDGE TINLEY: The general aviation business is -- is unstable at best. It's dependent upon the economy, and -- but you take that with the business. The jobs that 1-26-04 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 104 they provide, however, are the kind and the -- and the type of job and the remuneration aspect of it such that they're the kind of jobs we want. We need more of them, and if we can increase the number of jobs that are available, I think we can enhance our local economy, and that's what's we're all interested in. Thank you very much, sir. MR. LIVINGSTON: Appreciate it. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, I want to point out that here's another great leader in our community, and, of course, he lives in Precinct Number 1. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: He has interests in Precinct 2. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, that's just part of his interest. Buster. MR. LIVINGSTON: You've got your support, COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: But he's been married to my cousin for 50 years. MR. LIVINGSTON: Thank you, gentlemen. JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Dewey. We really COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: One big, happy family 24 here. .~-- 25 1-2~-0~ JUDGE TINLEY: This matter relative to the appreciate it. 1 -^ 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 .--~ 25 105 lease is on the executive session for later, for any of you that reviewed the agenda. It's matters relative to that lease. That being the case, I assume there's no motion to be offered or any further action to be taken on the agenda item as presented. COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, question. I mean, I noticed the City Manager and Airport Manager in the audience. You don't have any comments on this? Just came to listen? MR. PEARCE: No, sir. MR. PATTERSON: Not at this point, sir. JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. We'll move to Item 1.8. I would point out to the Court that I got a call from the Treasurer this morning. She's ill, and asked that I pass Item 1.7. Item 8, consider and discuss reduction of registration fees for Rabies Drive, February 7, 2004 through February 21, 2004. Mr. Marc Allen. MR. ALLEN: Good morning. JUDGE TINLEY: Good morning, sir. MR. ALLEN: Well, it's time again for our annual Rabies Drive, which is hosted by the Extension Service and promoted by the Animal Control Department. The drive will start February 7th through the 21st. On Saturday, February 7th, from 1 o'clock till 3 o'clock, we'll have a veterinarian at the Ingram Fire Department, the 1-^6-G9 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 106 Center Point Fire Department, the Turtle Creek Fire Department, and the Cypress Creek Community Center, and they will be out in the rural areas to give vaccinations for all the rural folks that don't want to come into town. After that, for two weeks in the veterinarians' offices, you can still get a reduced rabies vaccination. And what I'm here for is to ask the Court to reduce the registration fee from what it is now, $5 and $10, to $1 during this two-week period. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What is the MR. ALLEN: It's going to be $6. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And normally $10? MR. ALLEN: Well every vet has a different fee. Some of them may be $12, some may be $15. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: They'll all be $6? MR. ALLEN: Right. All the vets will be $6 during the Rabies Drive. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, you want the registration fee to go down from $10 to $1? MR. ALLEN: Right, that's correct, just during the drive, the two-week period. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That two-week period. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move for approval. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 1-~6-04 1 ~- 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 ..~- 25 107 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded. Any further questions or discussion? COMMISSIONER LETZ: Question. You said something and I'm -- I've been thinking as you said it. How is this -- this part of the Extension Office? MR. ALLEN: Well, they're the ones that have always hosted it. It's just -- I get called in here to promote it. It's always been that way. COMMISSIONER LETZ: What does "hosting" mean? I -- what do they do? MR. ALLEN: I'm not sure. COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. MR. ALLEN: They send me the letter and tell me this is the time of year that we're supposed to do it. And we've done that it way since I've been here. COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. JUDGE TINLEY: The whole purpose being to encourage and promote and increase the number of rabies vaccinations and animal registrations? MR. ALLEN: That's correct. JUDGE TINLEY: Any further questions or discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 1-~~-04 1 ,"^ 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 ,_._ 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 108 (No response.) JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Judge, if I might make an observation or suggestion, I don't know which, there are a few people left in the audience who are interested in Items 12, 13, 14, and 15. Can they be done now, or should we tell them that they're going to be dome after -- after our lunch break? JUDGE TINLEY: The County Attorney advised me during the break that he was doing some more investigation on at least one of these items. I'm not -- I think it was Item 14. And I indicated to him that it appeared that it was going to be after lunch before we got to that, and -- MR. FEARY: Your Honor, we got that resolved. JUDGE TINLEY: Pardon? MR. FERRY: We got that resolved, the issue that Mr. Motley talked to you about. JUDGE TINLEY: All right. MR. FEARY: With Mr. Johnston. So, if the Court wants to go ahead with that, we can. JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. What you're suggesting, Commissioner, is that we -- we go to Items 12, 13, and 14 and 15, and see if we can resolve those before lunch? COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That would be convenient to some of the -- 1-<<-04 1 -- 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 109 JUDGE TINLEY: Surely. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. JUDGE TINLEY: If there's no objection, Item 12, consider and discuss the findings of the County Engineer and County Attorney on the status of investigating the citizen's complaint that a construction pad on Should Bee Road would cause rainwater runoff to adversely impact private property or public right-of-way. Commissioner Nicholson. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We talked about this issue at our last Commissioners Court meeting, and there was some questions that could only be answered by the County Attorney and the County Engineer, so I'd like them to describe to us their findings on this one. (Discussion off the record.) COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sheriff? Sheriff, could you turn that air-conditioner down, please? Or off, whatever. MR. FEARY: Okay. On the -- Item 12, the Should Bee Road location, we went out and visited that Friday afternoon with the County Engineer. There -- there are two levels of pad there that were built, apparently to put a house on at some point. It's in the floodplain. There's a question whether it's in the floodway or not, which would make a difference on what can be done there. 1-~ b-L' ~ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 ,^ 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 ~-, 25 110 But there was a permit issued in 1999 to put in a certain amount of fill on those lots. My understanding is that permit was issued after the fact, but that was issued by U.G.R.A. when U.G.R.A. was administering floodplain. That -- that permit was good for six months, and I have seen it, but apparently there's a note in the file that Stuart Barron at some point verbally agreed and made some notes to -- to add to that pad. That's not part of the permit, however. The pad has been increased, I believe in October of 2003, clearly outside the permit period. There's been another few feet of dirt put on that -- on that pad. It looks at this point that that addition to that pad is outside the permit, and we could -- the County could require that it be removed. That is the most definite situation we have. Whether or not the original pad could be removed and revocation of permit is, in my opinion at this point, really up in the air. We don't have authority beyond floodplain administration. The Water Code provides that if a person diverts or impounds a natural flow of surface waters, and in a manner that damages property of another, the code provides for the -- that other person, the person damaged, to have a remedy against the person who diverts the water. Doesn't provide for the County to go in and do anything beyond administering the floodplain. So, where we are on this one, I think, is we can probably -- the County ,_~c_,~~ 1 ^ 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 ,•-- 25 111 could probably cause, through the floodplain administration, the latest addition to that pad to be removed. At this point, I don't see a way to go back and remove the original pad. There's also been an application, I believe, for a house to be built there, which would require a study. That has not been done. It's -- that area out there isn't mapped, and we don't know if it's in the floodway. Like I said, that would make a major difference on whether the house could be built on there or not. COMMISSIONER LETZ: What's the -- I mean, I guess, how does -- this is probably more to Franklin than to you. What is your standard way for proceeding when somebody wants to build a house in such an area, whether this area or any other area? MR. JOHNSTON: They'd have to get a development permit, and part of that would be to provide an engineering study, show that they won't raise the level at any point in the -- affect the floodplain more than a foot. COMMISSIONER LETZ: But if it's -- if it's not in the floodway, it's fairly common? MR. JOHNSTON: If it's in the floodway, that's a different criteria. They have no rise in the floodway, if it's permitted at all. It's usually not permitted. COMMISSIONER LETZ: Not permitted at all in 1- 6-U 4 112 1 the floodway? ^ 2 3 floodway. 4 5 7 MR. JOHNSTON: No fill is permitted in the COMMISSIONER LETZ: And if it's in the floodplain, I mean, depending on the situation, it can or can not be done, based on the engineering or the engineering study? 8 9 10 saying? 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 ,,^ 2 4 25 MR. JOHNSTON: Right. COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is that what you're MR. JOHNSTON: Based on that study. COMMISSIONER LETZ: And that study, then, in addition to coming -- or being approved by the County, it's approved by FEMA? Doesn't FEMA get involved with it? MR. JOHNSTON: No, it's approved by the County Floodplain Administrator. COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What I don't understand is, any -- seems to me that any time a rule or a regulation or a law is broken, I mean, County Attorney's office -- I mean, you don't go to Judge Brown and discuss these things. You go out and have them arrested and deal with the issue. I don't understand why -- I never have figured out why we're having this discussion. If the guy's breaking the rules, do something about it. 1-~6-0~ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 _.._, 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 ..^ 25 113 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. Make him -- COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't get it. COMMISSIONER LETZ: Make him remove the fill and file all the papers, do the work properly. MR. FEARY: I'm not aware of a criminal violation, so we couldn't go filing on him. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm just using that as an example, but something -- we wouldn't have this -- the federal people wouldn't be involved if there wasn't some kind of law; I mean, something we can do about it. MR. FEARY: Correct. Under our authority to administer the floodplain, there is, and we could -- probably the first step would be to write a letter directing the individual to remove the fill that was put in there outside the confines of the permit that he has. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I thought that had been done. No, go ahead, I'm sorry. MR. FERRY: I'm not aware of that having been done. If that doesn't happen, the Court could authorize us to file a civil suit, and we could file through -- get an injunction asking him to remove it. COMMISSIONER LETZ: That, to me, is what we should do, those steps. JUDGE TINLEY: Any further input on this issue from you two gentlemen? i-~5-o~ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 .--, 2 4 25 114 MR. FEARY: No, Your Honor. That's all I have. JUDGE TINLEY: We had two persons sign up to speak on this issue. Ms. Catherine Fox and Ms. Mary Hart Frost. Okay, Ms. Fox. MS. FOX: Thank you. My name is Catherine Fox. I reside at 131 Santa Christina Lane West, my new official 9-1-1 address. Yeah, finally. I would like to begin by answering Commissioner Baldwin's last question; why hadn't something been done, or how did we get to this point? Very simply, it is my personal opinion that this thing was allowed to get to this point because the last Floodplain Administrator, whose name I will not mention, was not doing his job, and allowed the prevention order to be broken. And the new Floodplain Administrator coming on board, being brand-new, I would like to give him the benefit of the doubt, but he did not notice that the permit was expired. So, here we are. We're not going to pass blame on anyone; we're going to move forward and hopefully get this resolved. The original permit was issued in October of 1999, stamped, quote, "This development permit is valid for six months," unquote. That's down at the bottom of the permit. Therefore, I believe that the gentleman who has done this is in contempt of court, and I request that removal of the pad fill take place immediately. As was just discussed, a _ C 1 2 3 4 5 115 letter could be sent out to him, et cetera, et cetera, by the County Attorney's assistant. COMMISSIONER LETZ: Ms. Fox, are you talking about the new -- the fill recently added? MS. FOX: The pad. The construction pad 6 only. 7 8 2-foot -- 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Which is the new MS. FOX: Yes. JUDGE TINLEY: Do we have any way of determining when the original fill was put in? MS. FOX: Yes, we do. I have provided all that documentation to the County Attorney's office. JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. MS. FOX: I request, furthermore, that neither a new development permit, a new construction permit, or any variances of any type be issued or granted until definitive, detailed, material proof is submitted to the Floodplain Administrator's office. That means every single article, section, subsection, and definition of the regulatory floodway, as defined in that article of Kerr County's Flood Damage Prevention Order Number 26463, including those outlined by Franklin Johnston's December 2nd, 2003 letter to the owner of Lots 42, 43, and 44, located in Bumble Bee Hills Subdivision in west Kerr 1- ~ 6- G 9 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 116 County. As these lots are located in a regulated flood hazard zone within a designated 100-year flood area, it is imperative that no corners are cut, no allowances are granted, no deals made, and no opinions allowed. It is the duty of the Court, the County's Floodplain Administrator, and the County Attorney's office to uphold and enforce Kerr County's Flood Damage Prevention Order. If this is not done, then all preexisting homes, development, roads, state, county, and private, near the property seeking a permit to develop in a flood-prone area are at risk. I speak not only for myself, but for all the individuals who have property adjacent to these lots. We will not rest until we know for certain that our property is safe from floodwater damage, and this can only be accomplished by holding the owner and the County officials accountable on this matter. It is far too important to handle otherwise. We do believe in private property rights; however, it is our contention that one's right to do whatever he so desires with his own property stops the very minute he endangers his neighbor's property. If this were merely a case of endangerment to the individual in question -- but, alas, it is not. The County adopted a flood damage prevention plan, and now it is time for the County to do the right thing. Stand behind it, enforce it, and prove to we, the citizens, that it is worth the paper it 1-zE-~~ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 117 is printed on. According to an article in the West Kerr Current, the Floodplain Administrator, Franklin Johnston, explained, the primary reasons for regulating what is built in the floodplain along the Guadalupe River and its tributaries is to protect people and their property. As the area in question is extremely close to both a major river, the Guadalupe, and one of her tributaries, Bumblebee Creek, I trust Mr. Johnston is fully aware of how serious this matter truly is. In conclusion, the County Attorney's assistant said that, at this point in time, he could see no way that the permit could be revoked, or that -- and then, at another point in time, he stated that it was up in the air. I would like to state that -- that if any citizen, including myself, can meet the legal requirements to present -- to present the fraud and material fact elements of revoking a permit, that we will continue to pursue with the County Attorney's office seeing that the fill is removed that the original permit granted, if and when it is determined that it is not in the floodway. But it must be determined first whether it is in the floodway, because if it is in the floodway, then that is a moot point; it needs to be removed anyway. Thank you, gentlemen. JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. Fox, you indicated that you had some evidence as to when the original fill was 1-~r-C!4 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 118 placed? MS. FOX: Yes. JUDGE TINLEY: There -- MS. FOX: It began being placed there on March 5th of 1999. It was a long process, sir. It was many, many, many days of dump trucks going to and from Point A to Point B. JUDGE TINLEY: Was all of the original fill placed there within the terms of the original permit which was issued? MS. FOX: No, sir. It was placed there without a permit. The permit -- JUDGE TINLEY: All before? MS. FOX: Yes. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: When was the permit issued? JUDGE TINLEY: October. MS. FOX: October. Any other questions? JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you very much. MS. FOX: Thank you. JUDGE TINLEY: We appreciate your comments. Ms. Frost? MS. FROST: I can give you some -- oh, I'm Mary Hart Frost, and I live at 312 Queen Bee Drive West in Hunt. I can give you some personal background on what 1 ~ 6 U 4 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 119 happened. The lake that is in the -- well, it's not in the development. It's going to be in the Stablewood Springs development. In March of 1999, that lake was dug out 16 feet, and all of the dirt from that lake was taken down and placed on lots -- on Lots 44, 43, 42, and the parking tract. I asked the individual who was moving that if he had a permit to move that dirt down on those lots. I was a lot more naive then than I am now. He told me that he had a permit. After the dirt was dumped there, I found out that he did not have a permit, and I wrote a letter to Mr. Wiedenfeld saying that this is a follow-up of our conversation regarding the dumping of fill without a U.G.R.A. permit -- or U.G.R.A. permit. So, on -- there was a meeting on September the 7th, 1999, which, unfortunately, I was not able to attend. MS. FOX: Excuse me, Mary. May I ask you, please, not to discuss that at this time? MS. FROST: Okay. What about the fact that we never signed an agreement? MS. FOX: No, don't discuss any of that. MS. FROST: I -- I'll just give you my personal opinion, and that is that that dirt was placed there without a permit, and that I don't think it was legally placed there, and -- and as Cathy said, we'll pursue this if -- if it's not taken care of. 1-^~-u~ 1 ^ 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 .,._. 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 120 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you very much. We appreciate it. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Let me see if I can frame the issue, Mr. Engineer and the County Attorney. Did I understand that the second fill was clearly unauthorized, and we can clearly have -- require that to be removed? MR. FERRY: I believe so, yes. There's no permit that shows that that's -- that's been authorized, other than these notes, which in my mind do r.ot constitute a permit. And we can probably -- we can ask that that be removed, and I think if it became necessary, we could go forward to get the top -- what has been referred to as the -- the icing, with the bottom being the cake -- we can get the icing taken off. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: And, again, Mr. Attorney, the initial feel, is it -- are you saying it's unclear whether or not that was properly authorized? MR. FERRY: Well, it was authorized after the fact. And -- but since a permit was issued that covers that fill, on the surface, it looks like it's okay, that it can stay there. I think that -- the figures allude to maybe some fraud and deception involved in the granting of that permit. Well, if it was secured by fraud, then, of course, it's not a valid permit, but that is -- that is an area that we just don't know yet. i-~~-o- 121 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Franklin, if -- I guess they -- someone has applied for a permit to build a residential dwelling on those lots; is that right? MR. JOHNSTON: There's a permit open right now. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Open? MR. JOHNSTON: For that, yes. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: If -- do you have an opinion about whether or not it would be -- that engineering studies would allow a residence to be built on the initial pad? Is the initial pad -- the level of the initial pad going to -- MR. JOHNSTON: U7ell, I think the -- you know, I wouldn't want to prejudge what the study would be. Obviously, the initial pad probably wasn't high enough; that's why they added more fill. Just -- you know, not -- not based on anything but observation. But -- COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't see that -- we certainly can -- I don't see -- MR. JOHNSTON: I think, you know, we can proceed along with the County Attorney to get them notified to remove that part. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Commissioners Court doesn't need to act? COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't -- we don't need 1-z5-~~ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 122 to act, but we can -- if you want it on the record, we can certainly -- you can make a motion; I'll be glad to second it, to authorize the County Engineer or Floodplain Administrator to do what they need to do to get that -- excuse me -- that most recent fill removed. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I second that motion. MR. JOHNSTON: Well, that can be done forthwith, and -- COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. JUDGE TINLEY: Another question, Mr. Johnston. When the initial fill was placed there, was there a condition precedent that the party requesting the right to place the material there furnish your office, or the then-Floodplain Administrator, with evidence that it was not in the floodway? MR. JOHNSTON: All -- the only information I have is what's in the files. JUDGE TINLEY: But did the rules require that? MR. JOHNSTON: Yeah, they have to -- JUDGE TINLEY: Before seeking that permit, that they've got to negate the fact that the property where they intend to place that fill material was in the actual floodway? 1-2d-o4 1 ,--- 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 ,,,.1 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 ,-~ 25 123 MR. JOHNSTON: Right. They would have to JUDGE TINLEY: Well, they obviously didn't do that. MR. JOHNSTON: I think that question came up in some of the correspondence, and then after that, it was just kind of ignored, and it -- a permit was issued. JUDGE TINLEY: What I'm suggesting is, if, in fact, there was a requirement that the party seeking permission to place the fill there negate the fact that the property where they intended to place it was in the floodway, and they failed to do it, there may be an enforcement action against the whole -- the whole thing. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Judge, just an observation. I don't think it's rare, maybe not even uncommon, that in Kerr County people start a development without the proper permitting, because they know there's no consequences to it. I think that goes on routinely. JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I -- COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think, yeah. JUDGE TINLEY: I think we may be on a mission to send the message. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'd like to be. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But you're saying there may be -- that may be an avenue to revoke that -- i-~E-~_~ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 _, 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 .-, 25 124 JUDGE TINLEY: Absolutely. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- that permit? JUDGE TINLEY: There may not have been the appropriate -- the initial permit, number one, issued after-the-fact, that makes it suspect. Number one. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm. JUDGE TINLEY: That's under the theory it's easier to ask forgiveness than it is to ask permission. But, secondly, if a requirement to get such a permit, had it been done properly, is to negate that the property where they intended to place the fill was -- was in the floodway as a condition precedent to getting the permit, then the requirements of the permit were not met to obtain it initially, even assuming it was done timely. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Because the permit was for floodplain; is that correct? Not floodway. MR. JOHNSTON: Yeah. The floodway is very different; you cannot add it in the floodway. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I understand. So, the permit was for floodplain? MR. JOHNSTON: Right. COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think that's an important point. And the fact that the permit was done after the fact, I don't -- a lot of times it's done because you don't know how much you're going to end up -- and I'm 1-zF-o~ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 .^.._ 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 125 saying, I mean, a huge -- I mean, a tremendous amount of Kerr County is developed in the floodplain, and I think a lot of those permits are done. When Little League was working on some stuff, they wanted us to get them -- work with Voelkel and Charlie, whoever all the people were; they wanted us to approve the concept, because it wasn't going to be a problem, because the actual permit was done after the fact. So, the fact that it's done after the fact doesn't mean that anyone intended to do anything illegal, because sometimes you don't know the exact fill, but I think the floodway issue is a lot different. I mean, if they built in the flood -- floodplain and floodway are very different animals. JUDGE TINLEY: Certainly. COMMISSIONER LETZ: And if it's in the floodway, then there was deception, whatever else you want to call it, 'cause it's not correct. JUDGE TINLEY: My point is, irrespective, if -- if the person applying must establish that the place where they intend to put the fill is not in the floodway as a condition to getting that permit, obviously, they didn't do that. We don't know where it is. But if there's a requirement -- MR. JOHNSTON: We don't know where it is. JUDGE TINLEY: It's at least in the i-~6-~~ 126 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 ,^ 2 4 25 floodplain, if not in the floodway. MR. JOHNSTON: In an unstudied area, it's up to the developer to have a study done to prove it's not in the floodway. COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. MR. JOHNSTON: And there's no evidence he's done that. JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. Fox? MS. FOX: A documentation is in the file. I don't believe, based on what the current Floodplain Administrator just stated -- and please correct me if I'm incorrect, but that he has studied it as thoroughly as I have. The documentation to prove the question that you just asked is there. It's in black and white. It's hard copy; it's not hearsay. There is documentation to also prove that other elements that were discussed just now by Commissioner Letz can be proven as well, and they are attorney documents on a copy -- you know, letterhead. So, I -- I personally believe there is enough there to have it revoked, and I am willing to present that to the County Attorney. JUDGE TINLEY: I would encourage you to do so. MS. FOX: And I ask that nothing else be done, as far as giving a variance or granting any permits, until I have a reasonable amount of time for my legal 1-~6-09 1 --~ 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 ,^ 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 127 counsel and myself to present that to the County Attorney based on his timetable. Thank you. COMMISSIONER LETZ: Based on whose timetable? MS. FOX: The County Attorney. COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. MS. FOX: He's very hard to get ahold of, and he does not return calls in a timely fashion sometimes. He's a busy man, I presume. JUDGE TINLEY: There's a motion and a second directing the County Attorney to proceed forthwith on this. Is -- for the enforcement? Any further question or discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. (No response.) JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Item 13 is consideration and discussion of the findings of the County Engineer and County Attorney on the status of investigating the citizen's complaint that development at the end of Cardinal Hill Road will cause rainwater runoff to adversely impact private property or public right-of-way. Similar issue here, it appears. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Similar issue. It doesn't involve the floodplain itself or the floodway, but 1-~6-U9 1 '-- 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 .-, 25 128 it is a similar issue in that it may cause rainwater runoff to exacerbate flooding problems downstream, and that same thing. I'd like to hear from the County Attorney and then the County Engineer on it. MR. FEARY: The regulatory authority over this would be our Subdivision Rules. Except for the fact that, at this point, all we know is that there's a road back in there, and there's no other -- we don't have anything else to substantiate that it is a subdivision. They're just cutting a road through there, so it doesn't rise to the level -- that would be like somebody cutting a new road through their ranch, and so it doesn't rise to the level of Subdivision Rules applying yet. And, again, we don't have -- it's not -- there's no indication it's in the floodplain or the floodway. We don't have authority there. The only remedy at this point would be the private property owners who would be harmed by this activity. Now, if this -- this project reaches the level of a subdivision, then there are regulations within our sub -- provisions in our Subdivision Regulations to address improvements to divert water, and then we can look at it from that aspect. At this point, I don't think we have anything to go on, on this particular project. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Do we know who owns i-,~-o~ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 129 MR. FEARY: I don't know. Do you know who owns that? MR. JOHNSTON: David had a name. He called someone; he had a name, but someone out-of-county owns it. (Low-voice discussion off the record.) JUDGE TINLEY: Can you help us, Ms. Fox? MS. FOX: Yes. The name is -- a husband and wife, Larry and Nancy Gibson. JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. Do you know where they're from, Ms. Fox? MS. FOX: Yes. They reside in San Antonio. JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. MR. FEARY: Mr. Motley did have some extensive conversations Friday with another attorney. I just -- I don't have that information, but he has followed up on that. JUDGE TINLEY: Essentially, at this point, though, it's your conclusion at the present time there's no violation of floodplain regulations or Subdivision Rules that the County has an interest in? MR. FEARY: That is correct, because it's not a subdivision. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's not a platted subdivision of record. MR. FEARY: Well, it doesn't look like 1-~6-04 130 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 anything that's being done out there at this point rises to the level of meeting the definition of "subdivision." COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay, thank you. MR. FEARY: If they start breaking it up, then it -- if things change markedly -- COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's -- I presume the County Engineer is going to write a letter to this property owner just advising them of our Subdivision Rules? I mean, I think that -- MR. JOHNSTON: I think the County Attorney was going to bring them a letter. COMMISSIONER LETZ: County Attorney is? As long as -- seems that the course of action is, if there's concern there, is that we inform them that we have rules and that we expect -- if he is doing a subdivision, he needs to comply with the rules, and we'll have to do them after the fact if he's doing things ahead of time. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Based on all that, it sounds like there's no room for action at this time. JUDGE TINLEY: Not at this particular point. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'd encourage the County Engineer and the County Attorney, to the extent that he's needed, to stay on tip of it in case they start evolving into a subdivision. MR. FEARY: Exactly. It could go that _ _~-o~ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 131 direction, and we would have -- COMMISSIONER LETZ: I will make a comment. I know we have some concerned citizens right there; that we rely on them to get the information to us. I mean, we can't, obviously, monitor every piece of property in Kerr County and see what people are doing with it. I mean, it's -- you know, we rely on citizens in the area to let us know, and I'm sure our citizens in this neighborhood will. MS. FOX: May I -- JUDGE TINLEY: Yes, Ms. Fox? MS. FOX: I believe that, at this point in time -- I don't believe; I know, but I cannot discuss it. However, nothing is going on over there at this time, because the owners are involved in litigation. So -- JUDGE TINLEY: Is that pending here in this county? MS. FOX: Yes. JUDGE TINLEY: Or do you know? MS. FOX: Yes, sir. JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. I assume there's no further action or motion to be offered? Let's move on to the next item, consider and discuss the finding of the County Engineer and County Attorney on the status of investigating a citizen's complaint that the operation of a caliche pit in Wood Trails Subdivision will cause rainwater 1-~~-0~ 1 -^ 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 ..-.. 25 132 runoff to adversely impact private property and/or public right-of-way. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: This -- I'm asking for the same input and advice from -- on this issue as on the previous ones from the County Engineer and the County Attorney. I do want to point out that I think "caliche pit" is a common terminology used for the ruining of caliche, the -- the gathering of caliche. This is not a pit. This is the removal of a ridge, and there's no pit there. It's going to collect water there. If it should -- if it does indeed cause additional rainwater runoff, it's going to come down the hill from this -- COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: He's stripping the side of a hill, right? COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Right. MR. JOHNSTON: Yeah. We looked at it from the -- you know, the perspective of staying on the county road. We couldn't go out there and do detailed looking at it; private -- private lot. It's hard to tell his intent. It could be, you know, development of leveling out his lot for -- for building a structure or building of some kind, or it -- you know, it could be something else, but it's hard to determine that just by looking at it. As far as the water runoff, it's hard to tell exactly the size of the development. If it's over an acre, it would come under the i-?E-o~ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 ,._. 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 133 T.C.E.Q. stormwater runoff rules for -- pollution prevention rules. It's probably a toss-up whether it's an acre or not; it's about that size. So, that's kind of the background. Do you have anything to add on that? MR. FERRY: Really, no. Just looking at it, it doesn't look like a whole acre is involved there. Basically, he's cutting into the side of the hill, and it might accelerate some of the runoff, but the amount of water coming down there is probably going to be the same. It's just where it comes -- the angle that the slope comes down is just digging into the side of that hill. The only thing that I noticed out there that's even possible is that some of the dirt has washed down, and it's -- there's a little bit of it on top of the county road, and there's some potential Class C for failure to remove injurious material from a road. Mud can be considered injurious if it's likely to cause an accident. But that's as far as -- that's as close as I could get to a violation out there, from what I saw. COMMISSIONER LETZ: Mike, at our last meetinq, the County Attorney stated that if T.C.E.Q. had that authority, we had that authority. MR. FERRY: On the stormwater? COMMISSIONER LETZ: He said anything -- he said if the State had it, we had it. That was his comment. i-~~-;~ 1 .-- 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 134 I questioned him on it; he repeated it. So my question now is, is that the opinion? Or was that an incorrect statement by the County Attorney? MR. FEARY: I don't know. I'll -- we'll get together and find that out. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Did you really expect him to answer that? COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I mean, you know, the County Attorney's office made the comment that if the -- COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Why not? COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- State has the authority to do something, the County has that same authority. And I questioned him, 'cause I didn't think that was a correct statement, and he -- MR. JOHNSTON: I think we could notify the State. I think they've already been notified by some of the neighbors. MR. FEARY: The County's designated for a lot of functions; I don't know if that's universal or not. COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm just trying to clarify -- I was surprised by his comment, and I'd like it clarified. MR. FEARY: We'll do that. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: It's important, because we have seen today that we do have authority to i-2~-o~~ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 .,.-.. 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 •-- 25 135 remedy issues like this if it's in the floodway or the floodplain. And the question here is, do we have the authority to -- to remedy similar situations that are not in the floodplain? MR. FEARY: Correct. COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I think it needs -- if you could ask -- or relay it to the County Attorney, you know, that if T.C.E.Q. has authority, does that mean we have the same authority to do the same thing? COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. COMMISSIONER LETZ: He said we do. Well, that's what he said, though. And we're relying on him, and he said we did, so... JUDGE TINLEY: Anything further on this item, COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'm hoping we do. Does anybody want to speak on this item? Okay. We'll move on. JUDGE TINLEY: Let's move on to Item 15 quickly, before we take our lunch break. Consider and discuss the progress of efforts to remove solid waste from the Wood Trails Subdivision. Commissioner Nicholson? COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: The Environmental Health Manager's here, and he'll address that. MR. ARREOLA: Okay. We did an inspection i-^~-o~ 1 -- 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 ^. 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 ~-. 25 136 last week. It was Mr. North and myself. We visited the site -- let me see, six sites in that subdivision. We found some problems. We found some illegal dumping in some sites, and we took pictures. I have pictures; we documented everything. Mr. North is now working on the legal case, and see if we're going to file any charges or anything with the J.P. court. I got information on what we found on those sites, and I got pictures of the same if you wish to see them. Probably won't address names or locations at this time, yet. We found metal -- all kinds of metal from automobiles, boats, trailers, welding supplies. We did find used motor oil spills on the ground, automotive batteries with open cell caps leaking into it, trash. We found all kinds of goodies on that. So, do you want me to go through each site and describe more or less what we found? I can do that. COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- I mean, for my benefit, no. I mean, I think just the -- you know, the fact that you're pursuing it is all that -- MR. ARREOLA: We're working on it. We spoke with at least a couple of the property owners, and they agreed to clean it up. We have a follow-up inspection order scheduled. One of them we're going to look at this week. The other one we get in two weeks, and the third one is -- it was already in the process of cleaning up when we showed 1 ~6-04 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 -- 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 „_ 2 4 25 137 up. So, we're going to go and look at it again anyway, but we -- questions? COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Do I understand that one of the property owners agreed to evict a tenant? MR. ARREOLA: He's been evicted already, and now the property owner is doing the cleanup. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Willingly? MR. ARREOLA: Yes. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: The site where it was alleged that a commercial trucking operation was dumping oil on the ground, did you learn anything about that? MR. ARREOLA: Yes, sir. We -- we got pictures of that. There's batteries also in there. I didn't find any oil spills, but I find a lot of containers with used oil. I spoke with that person, and he agreed to clean it up, take those hazardous waste products to be correctly disposed. And he's on our agenda to go and look at again. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I think I agree with Commissioner Letz that there's probably no court orders needed on this issue at this time, but I would encourage you to aggressively follow up and see if we can't get that subdivision cleaned up. MR. ARREOLA: Yes, sir, we're doing that. And, like I said, we got six sites that we are looking at, i-~~-o~ 1 ^ 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 -- 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 138 and we got three more scheduled to go and investigate. We also spoke with the representative of the neighbors in the area, and we let her know verbally, or at the outcome of the investigation, that -- where we are. We'll probably get her also a written report once it's all completed. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I think that, if you haven't looked at it -- and I'll visit with you about this -- there's another site close by that's on the other side of Goat Creek Road that may need some attention. MR. ARREOLA: Is that right? On Goat Creek? Yeah, we did look at that one too. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Good. Okay. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: One of the assertions when we heard this last was that there was some -- there was broken water pipes and -- and it was asserted that the County went in and replaced the water pipes and left the old pipes there. That's really not a true assertion, 'cause we don't do that. But my question is, do we know which water company is responsible for whatever took place? MR. ARREOLA: We didn't find that. We -- MR. ODOM: I authorized our people to go by and pick it up off of that right-of-way, dispose of it. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's already been picked up? MR. ODOM: Well, to my knowledge. That's -'E-c~ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 .-~ 25 139 what I said to do. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay, good. COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, they did it, I'm sure. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I think we have a neighborhood representative here -- subdivision representative. Do you want to -- MS. JENTSCH: I'm not a representative; I'm just a concerned neighbor. And I want to thank you and you so very much. We needed your intervention. And, if I might, some of the things that seems to me that pertain to us she so eloquently brought up to you, and I would think I want to discuss it with an attorney as well, if we need to. And I understand that the man that's doing this in the subdivision I live in, we have some recourse. But the ones that are outside of the subdivision, which would be the trucking person and the -- right, and the dump as you come in -- oh, this is getting no easier for me. Excuse me. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Would you identify yourself -- MS. JENTSCH: She's such a natural. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Would you identify yourself for the court reporter? MS. JENTSCH: Yes. I'm Beth Jentsch, and I'm nervous. I don't know how y'all do this. 1 - ~ b - G 9 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 ,,.._ 2 4 25 140 MS. FOX: Don't be nervous. MS. JENTSCH: My shy gene immediately comes. At any rate, I want to address something you said earlier, that you were interested in the moneys. And I want to assure you, for the -- that's what you're interested in, how it would affect you money-wise. And I can assure you -- COMMISSIONER Tn]ILLIAMS: You're talking about the tax thing now, right? MS. JENTSCH: Money -- just money for the -- our area. And I can -- COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Economic development. MS. JENTSCH: Just money coming into the area. If someone's coming from the west side of the country anywhere -- the stringent laws that they have in California, if a woman's coming in, let's say, in a big motor home, in a $100,000 one, and she pulls off to the west and she goes down that lovely Goat Creek Road, and she's thinking, "Boy, maybe we'll buy a little house here for an investment," and as soon as she goes around that corner and sees that trashy mess with no fencing, she's not going to want to do it. They'll just say, "Turn around." And they'll say, "Okay, let's turn up this road right here; we'll check a little area." The first street you turn up is the trucking -- the trucker, and they're out there on a dirt field, no -- no concrete. They're changing oil, which is a little bit from 1-26-G4 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 141 Goat Creek. Which, incidentally, is -- everybody, if you're not on a well, you're going to be drinking and bathing in it and cooking in it. So, I mean, there -- there is some type of money loss if something isn't done for these two things, 'r_ause they're in the entryway. It's not way out in the backwoods; these are right -- the first thing that you come to. And had I known when I bought here -- the reason I had no idea, it was summer, and there was some foliage. Well, I didn't come -- we didn't sell our home until I came in the winter. And, to and behold, I drive up and there's a junkyard at the entry. And then the home -- it was a lovely little home before the truckers decided -- but if they could just -- if the truckers that are -- incidentally, are in a residential area, if they could just put a fence and a pad and a retaining thing for the oil changes they're doing, because there have to be laws in this country to stop that. Thank you. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Thank you. MS. JENTSCH: Oh, and thank you. I'll vote for you any time, anywhere. (Laughter.) For governor. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I don't have a motion. We don't need one, I don't think. And I want to comment that I hear that Miguel's doing good work on O.S.S.F., and I can see that we're getting more responsive i-~r-n~ 1 ^ 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 ..-, 25 142 and more aggressive action going on the solid waste, and just keep up that kind of pace. And -- MR. ARREOLA: Thank you, sir. And we'll -- we'll keep on it. We'll find also good -- some good news in there. There's a few places that used to be bad, according to Mr. North, and now they're clean. We also have pictures of that, everything that is developing. We'll continue with it. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Thank you. COMMISSIONER LETZ: Thank you, Miguel. JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Do I hear your tummy growling, Commissioner Baldwin? COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm fixing to go eat lunch. Y'all do what you want to do. JUDGE TINLEY: I see. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Lunchtime. COMMISSIONER LETZ: I was just looking at 10 and 11. I guess Commissioner 1's leaving. I was going to try to get the Road Administrator back to working on the roads before we do lunch, because I don't think those are very long items. 11, I know, is short. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: 10's short too. JUDGE TINLEY: Let's go back and pick up Item 10, consider the contingencies for cul-de-sac in Court Order 28133 and approve the completion of same. That was out on 1-_' 6-;; 4 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 143 Dickey Road, as I recall, where we approved the closing of a road contingent upon the -- MR. ODOM: Specifications. JUDGE TINLEY: Wherever we ended -- MR. ODOM: Right. JUDGE TINLEY: -- the public roadway, having a cul-de-sac put in, and I assume that has been done to your satisfaction? MR. ODOM: Yes, sir, very nice job. You see a picture of it. It's complete, and I wanted to bring it so it wouldn't be hanging in the future, ten years down the road or something, and bring it the Court's attention and ask them to confirm the issue of court order confirming the construction required in Court Order 28133, that it's complete. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'll make a motion that we have an order confirming the construction required in Court Order 28133. COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for approval of the agenda item. Any further question or discussion'? COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'll just say that I think this has been a good example of Road and Bridge people 1-~E-0~. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 ..., 25 144 working cooperatively and effectively with citizens to resolve an issue. JUDGE TINLEY: Any further comments or questions? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. (No response.) JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Let's go on to Number 11, consider awarding the annual bids for equipment by the hour, paving aggregate, asphalt emulsions, corrugated metal pipe, black base Type AA, cold mix Type CC, and road base material. MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. In the addendums that I have, you can see that on culverts, that the low bid is Wilson. We ask that the Court award that to Wilson Culverts. As a backup is Walter's Supply, which is in Fredericksburg. They are essentially -- Contech is the one that supplies it. The dollars are there, but as a backup, sometimes I need that, so I ask that we recognize those two bids. On base material, that -- I had this divided up a little bit, but James Reeh is low bid on Grade 1, and Grade 2 he is also, in Comfort. But James Reeh must be 12, 15 miles outside Comfort, I believe. So, what we've done in 1-~6-04 1 .-- 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 ..,. 25 145 the past is that Lucky 3 -- I just talked to them. If they are -- that's right out before you get into Center Point there; if that is closer, that we normally look at material in their location. Wheatcraft is on 1341 out here. We have one in -- in Center Point, and then I have one in Comfort. So, I would ask you to authorize to be able to take James Reeh when the haul is correct, Lucky 3, and Wheatcraft. We recognize those three bids as contingent on us being able -- the travel time is one thing that gets us, and I -- by the time we do this, if we recognize these three, that I have that backup and that ability around the county to pick up material. Emulsion oil, that -- Ergon won that bid. Recommendation is Ergon be awarded that bid for emulsion oils and AEP. On asphalt, we had -- we sent out two bids. One was to Martin Marietta, the other one Vulcan. Vulcan was going to bid on it, and for whatever reason -- when I called the salesman to ask why they -- it was sent to San Antonio, and a gentleman had a knee operation and they did not return that bid on black base and CC, our level-up material, as well as PB, Grade 4, which is light natural limestone asphalt. And I would ask that the Court would authorize Martin Marietta as the low bidder for that material. There was also an item -- that was trap rock. 1-~h-,~ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 146 That is a single-source material. That comes out of Knippa out of Vulcan. They did not bid it; of course, you didn't send it in, but we have -- since that is single-source, I ask the Court to recognize that trap rock as -- as a bid. We have a bid of $20.41 a ton delivered to Kerr County. That is the same material that we've been using that we wish to do in our new program -- that's correct -- out here, as well as Sheppard Rees, is that type of material. It is a very lasting material. Since it is single-source, it's not -- I don't -- I think this is maybe the only place. There may be a place up around Ranger, Texas, and the other one's Stone Mountain, Georgia. So, that is very hard material, and that comes from, my understanding, very deep in the earth, and there's only a few places in the world that has that outcropping, and Knippa, Texas is one of them. So, we would like to use the material and recommend that trap rock be awarded to Vulcan, since it is single-source. Also, you will see that the equipment by the hour, we would ask the Court that our first -- the low bid is Mike Butler. Availability -- Mike is highway work. The next one that you can see -- I think when I added these up, there was $10 difference by the hour with Steve Schwarz and Mike Butler. Rocky Hawkins was third. Edmund Jenschke, Joe Ed Jenschke, and Bobby Jenschke. I would ask the Court to recognize these bids. We will use them in that order and i-,y-r,~ 1 --- 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 .-, 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 .~ 25 147 availability, should we need this equipment by the hour. Particularly, Bobby Jenschke has bigger equipment, and you can see a big disparity in the bid, but it's because of the size of the equipment, and there are times that we need that. So, I would ask the Court to authorize us to award this in this order, and we will use discretion and be fair in what we do as far as timing. But sometimes we cannot get that and I need a backup, should we have a need for this. COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move we approve the bids as presented. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for approval of awarding the bids as recommended by the Road Administrator. Any further questions or discussion? COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Just one. Where's Wilson Culverts located? MR. ODOM: Wilson Culverts is in east Texas around Tyler, back over in that area. JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) JUDGE TINLEY: We'll stand in recess until a quarter till 2:00. (Recess taken from 12:38 p.m. to 1:45 p.m.) _ _~-o~ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 ,,., 2 4 25 148 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let's come back to order. We went into recess at about 12:30. It's now a quarter till 2:00. The next item on the agenda is -- is Number 16, consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to approve Change Order Number 5 to compensate Compton construction for extra rock excavation in the Oak Grove Mobile Home Park, and additional stabilized base to used to cover 10-inch line in Riverhill Golf Course. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: When we put the Change Order 4 on the agenda some time ago and approved it, we did so, and that change order was to put in a manhole on Ranchero Road, which essentially would be used in the next phase which is yet to be let, but it will be soon let; we'll be asking for bids. Didn't have to put it there then, but we thought we'd have some extra dollars. It turns out that we don't have extra dollars, and what this will do is to remove the proposed manhole now, take those funds back into the current budget, and put the manhole in where it was originally going to be placed. It will be done, but it will be in the next phase, and the engineering. This would allow us to take care of the Change Order Number 5 for Mr. Compton, who did experience some extra work and equipment time, effort, to get through rock, and he also had some extra expenses involved in putting up the sewer line and the bypass on Riverhill Golf Course. So, that's the 1-2n-~9 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 ,.-. 25 149 sense of the change order. Also, some hydro -- dollars will be used for some hydroseeding out there. This will give us excess dollars by putting the $8,000 back into this in the current pot, and go for some extra hookups, probably. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That was a motion and second. JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to approve the agenda item -- you're deleting previously approved Change Order 4 and approving Change Order 5? COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's correct. JUDGE TINLEY: Any question or discussion? COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. The -- my question is, it appears to me by the backup that these are just conditions that were not expected in the -- you know, in the work. And I look at that as bidding error, not change order material. Unless the contract specified that if he hits rock, there's an additional charge or something of that nature -- to that effect. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Good point. It could be argued that way, that he maybe misbid. 'Cause our whole terrain is full of rock, and everybody knows it. COMMISSIONER LETZ: And, I mean, the other side of it, just to, I mean, play both sides of the fence on this one, their bid was substantially lower than the next -- i ~6 09 1 ~-- 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 150 next bid, so with this we could be ten times this change order and still come out cheaper than it would be to go with the second low bid. But it's just -- my point, I guess, is he did bid it. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And more real than that is, the digging of the rock that's covering up the 10-inch line, surely you would know how -- what -- how much fill it's going to take to cover up the line. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I would have thought so. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Anything to do with running into extra rock or anything. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: He says it's -- the difference in the submitted cost of the stabilized base is $2,600 -- I guess that, too, could be a bidding error. Fact of the matter is, he ran into these expenses, and my thought is we need to get this phase done and get these things behind us, 'cause we won't be experiencing these things in the next phase. These are some extra special things that we only had to do in Phase I, Riverhill being one, and the laying the line down, putting the line in down to Nimitz line. These things we will not experience in the next phase. I would like to get it done. COMMISSIONER LETZ: I didn't -- I mean, before -- before I vote for it, I need to hear, I guess, - ~ rJ - l) 4 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 .-~ 25 151 more of the details. I don't mean to be picky, but -- JUDGE TINLEY: Basically, that if the contract provided for additional costs in the election encountered and had to be excavated -- COMMISSIONER LETZ: Or they can be -- or the time -- I mean, if it was based on doing it a certain number of days, then, because of the rock, it can be handled certain ways, but I think that this needs to be addressed in the -- in the contract, that he's entitled to additional funds because of encountered conditions. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I tell you what we'll do. We can bring him in and bring in the engineer who has to certify this too, and let them both talk. Do it next time; we'll bring it back. I'll draw it up. COMMISSIONER LETZ: We're aoina to have a real long next meeting. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's fine. COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's just -- I mean -- COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's not a big deal for me, but I'll withdraw my second, if that's what everybody wants. If that's necessary. COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I mean I don't know COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I want people to be satisfied with it. I'll bring it back. 1-z6-o~ 1 -- 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 ,-~ 25 152 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Anything further on that agenda item? Let's move on to the next -- Item 17, consider, discuss, and take appropriate action for the approval of Kerr County Information Technology Policy. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The backup comments, I think, pretty well state it. Of course, the Court may want more time to study this and discuss it. I did submit it to Mr. Tomlinson for his review and to Mr. Branham for his review, and it's before you. If the Court needs more time to study it and wants to talk about it, whichever. JUDGE TINLEY: I guess you could look at it one of two ways, Commissioner. One would be, gee, I'd like to take a whole lot of time to study it, but another one would be, we got to start somewhere, and it's going to have to be changed at some point down the line when we find out where, and we don't know where that is now. And we can change it where we need to later. Well -- COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, that's correct, Judge. And, you know, the case was made to us quite substantially that there are abuses within the use of our technology which result in extra expenses and misuse of equipment. So, this is a starting point. It is a set of policies that, if adhered to, might make it a little bit easier, and a little more difficult for people to do that. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It is. When I first i-^~-o~ 1 -- 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 153 looked at it, I -- I didn't like it at all, 'cause I felt like it was intrusive on our elected officials and department heads. The more I -- the more I look at it, I like -- some of it, I like a lot. Still, I think that it is intrusive on the business of the elected -- other elected officials. I spoke with Mrs. Uecker last week, and she gave me permission to relay a story of how she's handled her office. There was -- she had one employee that was abusing the Internet system, and she simply had that computer turned off for 30 days, and told the employee that, you know, if this happens again, there will be major consequences. She handled the problem herself, which, in -- in my opinion, that's the way it should be handled. Now, there's -- there's areas in here that -- that I like. I mean, you know, the things like downloading programs onto County equipment, I agree with that 100 percent. And I -- I don't know how you -- how you would get an elected official to go along with it unless we do pass a policy. There are things in here, like "Kerr County reserves the right to monitor" -- you know, we have -- let's say, you know, you're talking about having our guru sit back in his office and monitor things, that there are some things that float around in the county system that nobody needs to be seeing. I think there's some juvenile issues, reports, bail issues between the District Clerk and the jail, all kinds of things like 1-~E-0~ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 -- 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 ..-. 25 154 that. And -- and I would think, you know, if you did -- if we did that to where we had an employee that's actually monitoring and reading things, that person needs to be bonded, I would think. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Probably. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You know, it's things like that. Personally, what I would -- and, you know, the disciplinary action part of it in here, 4. 6, that "may be subject to disciplinary action up to and including termination of employment," again, that -- we're -- we need to -- in my opinion, we need to leave that up to the elected official, the person that heads up those offices. And then there was part of it that's just kind of goofy. "Do not shout at your reader by writing exclusively in capital letters." We're going to have a government body sit here and tell people what kind of print to use in a note? I mean -- I mean, you know, I'm from Hunt. I grew up out in Hunt; these things seem goofy to me. And I think that we could possibly go through here and choose the things that are good fcr our county. This is what I'd like to see; I'd like to see us go through and choose the things that are good and do a workshop with the elected officials and department heads, and it would be a suggestion to them, and ask them to go take care of their offices. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's why it says i-zE-~~ 1 -- 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 ,.-. 25 155 "draft" on it, so we can get input. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's just where I'm COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I've got a few ideas on it, and if we continued to work through it, I would propose some changes, but I sort of like the idea of doing it more deliberately. Most of the changes I would make would deal with personal use of the -- of County computers, and that's what I call a "be no." There'll be no personal use of a County computer. I don't think the elected official or employee ought to be playing blackjack or sending e-mails to your cousin in California or whatever. They ought to be exclusively for County business use. And I'll comment on the solution that -- that the -- that Linda found. My first question to her would be, if the employee could be without the computer for 30 days, why does the employee need it at all? COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What was what? COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: If the employee can do without the computer for 30 days, why does the employee need it at all? COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Good question. COMMISSIONER LETZ: I pretty much go along with Commissioner Baldwin's idea of a workshop. I mean, I think we need to have the department heads', elected i-^6-G4 1 .-- 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 l2 ~... 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 156 officials' input before I'm willing to vote on it. And whether it's through a workshop or send out a draft copy, I don't care how we get that input. His idea is as good as any. But I want input from the others, 'cause they're the ones that have to do it. And, under the current lack of policy that the County has, the policy is that each department takes care of it themselves. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Or don't take care of it. COMMISSIONER LETZ: Or doesn't. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I have no problem with a workshop. That's why I put it on there, to find out which direction you want to go, what you want to have in and what you want to take out. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: If we had a -- if we have a department or if there's -- if there's a group in the courthouse or an employee in the courthouse that is abusing the system; i.e. pornography, or if an elected official is doing that, unplug the computer. Take -- go in and get the computer and haul it off somewhere else. I mean, I -- I don't get it. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That, again, presumes that the employee doesn't have a real business need to have it. I would unplug the employee if the -- COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Unplug the employee, i-~~-o4 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 .~ 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 .._. 25 157 whoever's abusing it, whether it's an employee or the elected official, either one. I'm just not excluding the elected officials from it. COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think that if, you know, we -- and I don't have a problem going pretty far with this, 'cause I don't -- I don't use a County computer for anything, so it doesn't make that much -- you know, on the personal use side, I use my own personal computer. But, you know, there are a lot of e-mails that are going around that are, you know, political in nature, or -- or not pornography by any means, but they're jokes, stories. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: They're not County business. COMMISSIONER LETZ: They're not County business. And -- COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That is true. COMMISSIONER LETZ: You know -- COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Would you like to set a date for a workshop? I'll be happy to do that. COMMISSIONER LETZ: Go ahead. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, let's see here. We're proposing a workshop and inviting all department heads and elected officials to participate in discussion of -- of information technology policy for Kerr County, and we'll set that date for -- 1-26-09 i ,--~ 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 ..-. 25 158 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 3 o'clock, the next Commissioners Court meeting. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- 3 o'clock, the next Commissioners Court meeting. Why not? Sounds good to MS. SOVIL: February 9th. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 2/9, at 3 p.m. That's my motion, Judge. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to set a workshop to discuss Kerr County information technology policies with elected officials. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Department heads and elected -- JUDGE TINLEY: And department heads and members of the Court for 3 p.m. on February the 9th, '04. Any further question or discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) JUDGE TINLEY: A11 opposed, same sign. (No response.) JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. We're on Number 18, consider and discuss and take appropriate action to approve a resolution prohibiting the use of excessive force by law enforcement agencies within our jurisdiction -~h-o~ 1 - 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 159 against any individuals engaged in nonviolent civil rights demonstrations. The explanation is that this is a requirement of political subdivisions that receive Community Development Block Grant funds, and that included among those is a one and a half million dollar grant that we're presently getting for the Kerrville South Wastewater Project; maybe others, I don't know. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Could be some others forthcoming. JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, I asked the Sheriff if he knew if we had this in place. If we did, I'd be happy to pull it. He doesn't think we do, but he also was quick to say that this is what he'd do anyhow. SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, my only comment on this, of course, we're applying for several grants at our own department. I understand the grant lingo and what they require. I think this is totally -- COMMISSIONER LETZ: Useless? SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: -- dumb, unnecessary. There's federal laws, state laws, our own department policies, everything else regarding excessive force. And, you know, numerous deals. But grant people being grant people, they can ask for weird things, anyhow. So -- COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And the State does 1-~E-0~ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 160 monitor us, and this is one of the things they look at. And if we have it in the file, we have it in the file, and that makes it a little bit better. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Rusty, the only area that I wanted to get into was this -- the County also prohibits the physical barring of any entrance or exit. What does that mean? SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I did not see that on that. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, that's the other half. SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's not on the -- COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You can't pick people up and you can't -- if they're -- I'm reading what it -- you can't keep people -- if there's something going on in a building, you cannot keep other people out of the building, is what I'm reading. Or you can't keep people from leaving a building. SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well -- COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: See? It gets goofier. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, this all has to do with nonviolent civil rights demonstrations. That's your limiter. We're not talking about anything else, just nonviolent civil rights demonstrations. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: If the Sheriff thinks 1-zc-c~ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 161 that he needs to keep someone in a building, I hope that he has the authority to do so. SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, I'll be honest, it was -- I can see this getting a little complicated at times. When they had the -- the Support the Military rally out here on the courthouse square here a number of months ago -- COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, yeah. SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: -- there was a person that showed up at that demonstrating against it, which he had every right to be here and to demonstrate against it. But during that, it came real close to fisticuffs, and causing some -- some serious problems out there, at which time I personally approached that young man and asked him if he would leave, okay? I can't force him to, and I wouldn't force anybody to. But to keep violence from happening and people going to jail, okay, at that point I did ask that man to leave. He complied and we had no more problems. I think you would have to be able to do that in a situation to control any type of -- you know, most of these nonviolent civil rights demonstrations all start out to be nonviolent, but it's what happens during it that -- that changes the dynamics of the whole thing, and we're going to take whatever law enforcement action is necessary to control that situation. I mean, you know -- COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's all I wanted to i-26-o9 162 1 I hear. -^ 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 .~- 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's all we can do. And state law says we cannot use excessive force no matter what we do, okay? But especially during riot situations and anything else, state and federal law both. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You know how I would -- my analogy for this Commissioner, is this is a "George Wallace" clause. Remember when he stood in the door of the Alabama State House and said, "You're not coming in the door"? JUDGE TINLEY: Same thing with the University of Mississippi when they were trying to get Meredith -- COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mississippi as well. That's the way I read it. I would move the resolution. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for approval of the resolution. Any question or discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. (No response.) JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We just saved a million and a half. 1-_'b-04 1 -^ 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 163 JUDGE TINLEY: Item 19, consider and discuss Kerr County Water Availability Requirements. Commissioner Letz? COMMISSIONER LETZ: I put this on the agenda as we're -- or as I have been going through the Subdivision Rules and decided we really ought to put this one and the next agenda item on the agenda, kind of make sure everyone's bringing it up again for review. And I'll start out by giving my personal opinion of what we ought to do with these, and then I'll turn it over to Lon Langley, General Manager of Headwaters, to let him know if -- you know, what he has to say about them. And then, if we can either -- if we go to -- if we do decide to modify them in any kind of substitute way, I think we'll have to go through a public hearing process, or if we wanted to delete them in the public hearing process, but I think it's a good time to get them on the table before we finish up the Subdivision Rules. When we did this, Headwaters wasn't doing much. Since then, Headwaters started doing a lot, and my feeling is that these are totally unnecessary at this point. I think that everything being done -- or, you know soiue of the things being dine or required in here are, I think, unnecessary. Some really don't work real well. From the standpoint of community water systems, we have a requirement that if it's less than 15 connections, that 1-~6-C4 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 ,,.~ 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 164 Headwaters has to approve it. Well, they really don't have a mechanism to approve the plans of a water system. We asked them to do something they really -- that's not their job. And we get into test wells and things of that nature. The intent was to get data, really, to kind of learn more about the Trinity Aquifer. I think they're getting that data from wells being drilled now; if anyone drills an individual well, those well logs go into this system, so they're going to get data on that area. And based on -- you know, I won't speak for Headwaters by any means, but I think the basic feeling is that if you drill a well anywhere in the county, you're probably going to hit water, you know, and it's probably going to be enough to sustain a house. There are some -- and with the pumping limits that are being put on, I think that now the groundwater is being protected. I do -- if we do keep -- you know, so my recommendation would really be to delete everything, probably, and I will say with the exception of 1.00, 1.01, the second paragraph of 1.02, and 1.03. And the reason -- COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Are you saying delete those? COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, do not. Do not delete those. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do not delete those. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Give us the numbers i-?~-o~ 1 -- 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 ,,., 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 165 again, please. COMMISSIONER LETZ: 1.00, 1.01, the second paragraph of 1.02 would remain, and then 1.03. And what that does is, it basically says that we are basing our lot size on water availability, and using numbers that I think are accepted by Headwaters, and which were set by Region J, Water Development Board. If you come up with a -- 2.8 people and 200 gallons a day, you end up with a 5-acre minimum lot size, and it gives us a justification for our minimum lot size. It doesn't go into -- into -- it's based on the best science we have right now, which is what those numbers calculate out to. So -- and I think there's a reason to leave that that way. If we are ever challenged on our lot size, we have a basis for why we have our lot sizes where they are, at 5 acres for individual ground wells. JUDGE TINLEY: The areas addressed in the Water Availability Requirements as they now exist, if those are eliminated, saving only those portions which you mentioned that tie back to lot size, and considering Headwaters' input and jurisdiction, are there any of the areas covered by the current Water Availability Requirements that will -- that will have a gap as a result of that? COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't think so. I mean, I think the -- what we have with our -- I mean, what we basically have done, we said if you're having the 1-'' n-G4 1 ^ 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 166 community system, it has to either be -- the design of it has to be approved by T.N.R.C.C. if it's large enough, if it's a public system, and if it's smaller than that, Headwaters is supposed to review it. But it's kind of beyond their -- what they do. And then the other thing it really requires is, if you're going to -- if a subdivision is going to rely on individual wells for their water, test wells -- one or two test wells have to be drilled. And the reason for that was really to get data to Headwaters so they can start getting more information on the Trinity. Well, they're getting data when that first well gets drilled anyway, and there's -- I think Lon can get to this in a minute. The fact that a test well is drilled doesn't mean that a given lot's going to have water or not anyway. I mean, the test wells, because of the nature of the Trinity, are somewhat unnecessary. So I think we're getting -- I think Headwaters is getting the data; therefore, why require the test wells? Which is a burden to the developers from a financial standpoint. Let me turn it over to Lon. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Can I ask you one question? COMMISSIONER LETZ: Certainly. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: If I was an individual drilling a well, or if I were a developer wishing to drill wells, what would be the impact on me of abolishing i-~ ~-o:~ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 -- 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 167 the parts that you're speaking about abolishing? COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, the impact would be if you were a -- if your development had -- I think it's 75; all your tracts were over 15 acres, they're large tracts, you wouldn't have to do anything right now anyway. If you -- if it's a real small subdivision with less than five lots -- I think it's five, you don't have to do anything. But if you're like a -- the Falling Waters, which we looked at fairly recently, or The Reserve, in that subdivision, we are saving that developer one or two test wells -- or would have. I mean, he's drilled his now, but if another development came in, we're saving some up-front costs on drilling some test wells, which may or may not prove anything. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That sounds good to me. I -- it's my sense that we might be just a bit overregulated on water well drilling. COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think Headwaters -- a lot of it was when we did that, Headwaters didn't really have any rules in place. I'll let Lon -- Lon, do you have any comments? MR. LANGLEY: Sure. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I want to make a comment while you're walking up here. When we put this in, it was our attempt at -- at protecting groundwater. And 1-~6-04 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 .--~ 25 168 now -- now that Headwaters Underground Water District -- what's your name? MR. LANGLEY: Lon Langley. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, I mean your group. MR. LANGLEY: Headwaters Groundwater Conservation District. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Conservation district. MR. LANGLEY: Yes, sir. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Have now taken and -- and started doing what they're supposed to be doing, then we're duplicating. And -- but I think we -- we accomplished what we set out to do, and it was a -- it was a -- it worked for a while. MR. LANGLEY: Thank you for having me. I agree with Mr. Letz, iri that the rules may not be necessary. We do have enough rules in place to take care of everything. In -- in my perspective, anyway. We have a restriction on lot sizes. They have to be 5-acre minimum already. That's part of the district, before they can put -- install a well on a property. And the biggest thing that we're interested in is, if a -- a subdivision goes in, you get a public water supplier. If they're drilling out of the Lower Trinity Aquifer, they're allowed 65,000 gallons per acre, per year. And if it's Middle Trinity, it's 50,000 gallons per acre, per year. And that really covers it. And he said when new 1-~~-r~~ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 169 wells go in, we get that data. They report the usages to us, so we -- we know how much they're using out of an area. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Great. JUDGE TINLEY: What about a small community water system, twelve connections? MR. LANGLEY: No difference, as far as we're concerned. If they're -- just depends on the water that they can get out. It just depends on what aquifer they're in, how many acres, how many acres are in their service area. So, if they have 10 acres, well, they will be allowed 50,000 or 65,000 times two. JUDGE TINLEY: Subject, of course, to Department of Health regulations on -- on the potability of the water, I assume? No? COMMISSIONER LETZ: Under 15 connections, no. There's no regulations, I don't believe, unless T.C.E.Q. changed the rules at some point. At one point you had to have over I5 connections to be qualified as a public water system. JUDGE TINLEY: What -- what manner, if any, do -- do the current water availability requirements address, say, a 12-connection -- COMMISSIONER LETZ: We say they have to be i-tee-o~ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 170 approved by Headwaters. We just pass the buck to them. JUDGE TINLEY: I see. COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm not really sure they have any ability to -- MR. LANGLEY: We really don't. COMMISSIONER LETZ: That was a problem. We -- see, we pass it off to them, but they don't have the -- the -- the authority, probably, legislatively, or the knowledge as to help us, to really give us feedback on that. JUDGE TINLEY: So, other than the pumping limits, really, those are kind of a no man's land, I guess, then, aren't they? MR. LANGLEY: That's really what the district's concerned about, is how much water's coming out of the ground. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Wouldn't we be better served referring it to T.C.E.Q.? COMMISSIONER LETZ: T.C.E.Q. doesn't want to regulate it unless it's over 15 connections. It is -- it is a -- it's a -- if you're a small water system, you're unregulated. Now, there may be some potability standards. That was when we wrote this. I haven't -- certainly am not versed in all of T.C.E.Q.'s rules. JUDGE TINLEY: There's a break point at which Department of Health requires chlorinators, fenced _-_E-~~ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 ,--- 25 171 enclosures, storage tanks -- COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Ultraviolet. JUDGE TINLEY: -- all sorts of stuff. I'm not sure exactly where that is, whether it's at the 15 that you mentioned or -- COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It is. JUDGE TINLEY: -- somewhat less. Is it? COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: At 15, yes, sir. JUDGE TINLEY: I could see somebody in a small subdivision really rolling the dice about the water they're getting, then. I mean, the question they've got is, "How much are you taking?" But, other than that, it's -- COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. JUDGE TINLEY: -- rolling of the dice. COMMISSIONER LETZ: But there's -- but I think that problem exists now, too, because no one has any mechanism to correct it, and this was not a good mechanism to try to fix it. I mean, I don't know how -- I don't know where in county government you would do that, other than -- I mean, it would be better suited to put it probably in Environmental Health Department than it would Headwaters, but I'm not sure that's a good spot, either. I mean, I think that the -- we just -- you know, it's just unregulated, and that's the State's rules. I don't know how you go about -- how a county would go about regulating. I 1-~~-0~ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 172 think we probably have the legal authority to do it, but I'm not sure. JUDGE TINLEY: Well, the point is, it wasn't in here to start with. COMMISSIONER LETZ: It was in here; it just wasn't practical to do anything with it. It felt good to have it in there. So, anyway, if -- you know, from what I'm hearing from -- you know, and this is visiting with Lon, and also I have visited with their president as well. He pretty much concurred with what Lon thought. I put it on the agenda to rewrite it as a one-page document and eliminate 80 percent of it. That will -- 'cause we'll have to go through the public hearing process on this, I believe. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'm in agreement with you. COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. JUDGE TINLEY: Well, you want to go ahead and set it for a public hearing? COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'd rather get the -- the draft -- JUDGE TINLEY: One-page draft? COMMISSIONER LETZ: One-page draft done so we have something to put before the hearing. JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Anything further on this particular agenda item? i-2n-u~ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 ~-., 25 173 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. JUDGE TINLEY: Hearing nothing, we'll move on to the next one. COMMISSIONER LETZ: Thank you, Lon. MR. LANGLEY: Thank you. JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Mr. Langley. MR. LANGLEY: Yes, sir. Thank you. JUDGE TINLEY: Consider and discuss Kerr county Manufactured Home Rental Communities Order. COMMISSIONER LETZ: I put this on the agenda for the same reason, and I -- I will note -- the whole Court isn't aware, last time when we adopted this, we got into a lawsuit with the state association over these, and I think that lawsuit has -- may or may not have been resolved. I think we were released, I believe, from it, possibly. But, anyway -- COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: What was the essence of the lawsuit? COMMISSIONER LETZ: That we overstepped our authority under the statute. At that time, I believe Sam Spears, a resident in the community, one of my constituents, was on their board; may even be head of their board, of their state association, and that was his feelings. I invited Sam to be here today, but I didn't invite him until Saturday afternoon, and I know he had a pretty busy schedule 1-z6-o~ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 ,,,~ 2 4 25 174 today. He was going to try to get here at 2 o'clock, but evidently he had other things come up. So, I don't want to go too far with this. I would like to get input from him as to where they think we overstepped our authority. These, I think, are very important rules that we keep. A lot of the problem areas from O.S.S.F., solid waste and other things are -- this is our closest way to be on -- or one of our, I guess, stronger ways to control it. If you are renting manufactured homes on property, you bring in two or three of them, start renting them, you come under this provision, and there's -- basically, it's written to be exactly like the Subdivision Rules. And when I called Mr. Spears, I said we're getting ready to redo our Subdivision Rules. When we change all of them, these get changed at the same time, in my opinion, or would -- or need to be, 'cause they still need to track exactly with the Subdivision Rules. So, it's on the agenda really just to make everyone aware that they exist. But we have had some conflict with the state association on these in the past, and I'll continue to try to -- with Mr. Spears, to try to resolve these ahead of time. I will note, when I was reading through them, there's one thing in Yiere that I don't believe is enforceable. Somewhere in here, I thought -- I believe it says that -- it's on utilities. JUDGE TINLEY: 1.03.D, Page 3. 1-~6-04 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 .._.. 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 175 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, 1.03.D. JUDGE TINLEY: Regulation. COMMISSIONER LETZ: A utility may not provide utility service. I think there's an issue on that, that we may not be -- we may need to delete that paragraph, 'cause the phone companies at this time -- phone, electric, sewer, whatever, they didn't -- they thought that their state rules kind of superseded our county rules on that point, and that they ignored it. So, that probably does need to come out. That's -- like I say, I just put it on the agenda to make everyone aware of it. I'll get with Mr. Spears one-on-one and try to go through them, and we'll bring them back. MR. JOHNSTON: I think the items involved in that lawsuit were changed in the updating of that ordinance. Had to do with the road right-of-way width, and I think that was the main -- as I recall, the main hangup. JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, that's my recollection. They had I think, 60-foot right-of-way width in there. MR. JOHNSTON: Reduce to it 30. JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. MR. JOHNSTON: Yeah. JUDGE TINLEY: There may have been some other somewhat minor ones, but my recollection of the main issue in that lawsuit was the right-of-way. MR. JOHNSTON: That was the main technical i-?r-o~ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 ,.-. 25 176 issue. I think they just didn't like the way mobile homes were referred to in some of the write-up, too. COMMISSIONER LETZ: Speaking of Mr. Spears, Mr. Spears is here. MR. SPEARS: Yeah. COMMISSIONER LETZ: I just said that I grabbed you late Saturday and told you that these -- this was on the agenda today, and I knew you had a very busy day today. Where we were was that, you know, we tried -- we really want to get input from you or the association related to the manufactured rental home communities. Our intent is, you know, as it was previously, to track our Subdivision Rules related to infrastructure. And, you know, unless there's some areas that we really need to change, to not change these very much. There is a -- we did discuss briefly, there's a provision related to utility companies that probably would be deleted, because we don't have any authority to tell utility companies what to do. But, other than that, we'd leave them as they're currently written, but they would be adjusted as we redo our Subdivision Rules; things like drainage studies may be a little bit stricter, as they would be in our Subdivision Rules. It will track exactly along with our Subdivision Rules. And if you have -- any comments that you have as to whether you think they're good, bad, or indifferent the way they're currently i-~E-c~ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 ,--. 25 177 written? MR. SPEARS: Currently, as of -- they were written what, two years ago? Or -- COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. And the draft that was approved by the Court had a right-of-way width at 30 feet. That was one of the -- MR. SPEARS: Right. COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- one of the points of contention, that we had 60 foot in our Subdivision Rules. And we did drop these back to 30 foot. MR. SPEARS: Right. COMMISSIONER LETZ: But, other than that, you know, there'd be no changes, other than how we change our Subdivision Rules. And I don't think we're anticipating any changes in road construction in our Subdivision Rules. Like I said, there will be some drainage changes. But, in your opinion, there -- MR. SPEARS: I don't -- you know, without -- COMMISSIONER LETZ: Going back -- MR. SPEARS: Without going through them completely again, I don't know of anything right offhand. The right-of-way easement was a big deal; 60-foot right-of-way was a -- was a big deal to us. COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. And it's 30 foot under the current. 1-~6-G9 1 ,_._ 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 .-, 25 178 MR. SPEARS: And the original language in the cover that we discussed earlier, that I -- COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- MR. SPEARS: -- had a real problem with. JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. Yeah. COMMISSIONER LETZ: We resolved that, though, I believe. MR. SPEARS: Right. COMMISSIONER LETZ: As to the -- we're trying to be positive related to these communities. MR. SPEARS: Right. COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. Well, I will get with you and get a draft of these to you with the changes, 'cause we'll have to delete that one provision. We'll have to do a public hearing on that, but we'll get those to you, and probably along with the anticipated changes in Subdivision Rules, to make sure that there's not something that is just unworkable from your standpoint. MR. SPEARS: Just out of curiosity, you had said something about the water -- water rights in the Subdivision Rules, the water availability in Subdivision Rules. Is the County sticking with the 5-acre minimum? COMMISSIONER LETZ: 5-acre minimum for the lot size will be the same, but we're pretty much going to eliminate the water availability requirements. Headwaters i ~~ o~ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 „_,, 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 2_2 23 24 •-- 25 179 has enough rules in place now that they're -- let them deal with groundwater. They're better at doing that than the Commissioners Court is. But the lot size would stay at 5 acres minimum, or average. MR. SPEARS: And that's with a private water system and a private sewer system? COMMISSIONER LETZ: Correct. MR. SPEARS: Okay. And that's contrary to the -- the State's version is what, 2 acres with a -- with a private water system and private sewer system? COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't think the state has a minimum. I don't know. I mean, I don't think the state has a subdivision lot size requirement. Or -- MR. SPEARS: My understanding was 1 acre with a conventional system and 2 acres with a -- with an aerobic system. COMMISSIONER LETZ: For a -- a standard subdivision or a rental? MR. SPEARS: For a standard subdivision. COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't believe that is there, but, I mean, the -- the water availability requirements, we will still keep the language in there that, "based on the groundwater management area that Kerr County lies within." We're going to stay with that. Basically, it's for recharge purposes, it takes 5 acres for a family -- 1-~6-G4 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 180 average family. And that matches Headwaters, so even if we didn't -- even if we change it, Headwaters isn't going to let a well get drilled, anyway. MR. SPEARS: Thank you. COMMISSIONER LETZ: All right. Well, appreciate you coming. MR. SPEARS: Sorry we were running a little late. I didn't think you'd get to that till later, so -- JUDGE TINLEY: We didn't, either. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Who's that with you? AUDIENCE: Hello, Mr. Baldwin. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Hey, Fred. AUDIENCE: How are you? JUDGE TINLEY: Is there anything else on this particular agenda item? If not, we'll move on. Item 21, consider and discuss the approval of contract between Kerr County and Region J and authorize County Judge to sign the same. (Discussion off the record.) COMMISSIONER LETZ: This is a form contract that the County Attorney's office came up with to have interlocal agreement between Region J and the County. And I ran it by U.G.R.A. because they serve as the political subdivision for Region J. They have -- they're happy with it. Region J is happy with it, so it's ready to go forward. 1-~6-G4 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 181 But I probably will not vote on this, considering I will be signing it for Region J. I don't know that it's appropriate for me to vote on both sides of it. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Commissioner Letz, in the "Whereas" section, Senate Bill 1 was passed by the 75th -- what year was that? COMMISSIONER LETZ: '97. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 1997. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is there a dollar figure in there? COMMISSIONER LETZ: $35,000. These are budgeted. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Move approval. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for approval of the agenda item. Any further question or discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. (Commissioners Baldwin, Williams, and Nicholson voted in favor of the motion.) JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. COMMISSIONER LETZ: I abstain. JUDGE TINLEY: You got him abstaining? Okay. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Hey, we're rolling now, man. 1-~5-G4 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 .-,. 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 ..-. 25 182 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. Item 22, consider and discuss status of the burn ban. COMMISSIONER LETZ: Based on the recent rains, I'll make a motion that we cancel the burn ban that's currently in place. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'll go for that. But, however, would it just -- procedurally, would it be easier to -- to leave it in place, and lift it so that we can easily reestablish the burn ban without having to have a Commissioners Court meeting? And if it's not easier, then it doesn't make any difference to me. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: When does this expire? MS. SOVIL: 90 days. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: From when? MS. SOVIL: December. COMMISSIONER LETZ: December 8th? COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It would expire in March. I'm kind of wondering the same thing. Why couldn't -- why couldn't we just -- each precinct suspend indefinitely? COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think one of the reasons -- and I see the Sheriff -- is that it's confusing when we're -- when we change it back and forth; it's hard on those that are enforcing it. And I think if we just cancel it, then it's a clean slate. And if, you know, we get into i-~~-o~ 1 ,_. 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 ~. 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 183 a situation. -- it's just -- to me, it's cleaner. I think that, you know, we need to be mindful of the weather conditions, and certainly, as we go into the spring, the winds. But the ground moisture is such that, certainly, for the next two to three weeks, we shouldn't have any problems. I mean, and, clearly, you're not supposed to be burning on days with winds like we have today, anyway. I mean, there has to be some common sense. But if we suspend the burn ban, they're going to still have to have some common sense. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'm okay with that. What experience I've had with it so far is we can always find three of us and call a -- a meeting in two hours if we -- if conditions deteriorate rapidly. COMMISSIONER LETZ: I move we cancel the -- MS. PIEPER: Yes, you have. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Before there's a vote, may I make a comment, just on at least today? So far today -- and, of course, my pager goes off anytime -- there's been five out-of-control burns in this county today. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Really? JUDGE TINLEY: Because of the wind. COMMISSIONER LETZ: Because of the wind. SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Two grass fires this _-, 6-0 ~ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 184 morning and three brush fires in the last two hours. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That shows that not everybody -- SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: As far as canceling it now, I'd just -- that's for information for y'all. That's quite a few in one day that we're having. CUMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: It's the wind. I hear you, Rusty, but people need to burn. It's important. SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Oh, I -- COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: They just don't use good judgment. They burn when they got a 20 mile-an-hour wind. SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I'm not going to get on either side of this issue. I just think that's information today, and I notice there was a couple yesterday. But five so far today is what they have been toned out to, three out-of-control brush and two out-of-control grass. COMMISSIONER LETZ: But I think one of the things that -- the fact that we go on and off these burn bans, people get concerned and they burn maybe when they shouldn't burn. SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: People get very confused, as well as my own department gets very confused, whether we are or aren't. We end up calling the hotline. Sometimes we get that going; sometimes it's not been 1 - ~ b - 0 4 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 185 programmed in. It is extremely confusing. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I can tell you, the bun ban is the worst thing that this Court does. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I agree with that. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The dumbest thing that we do, because we're telling people what to do with their own stuff. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I agree with that. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: However, there are some goofy people out there, that -- not you, but you can certainly report that -- that burn under the conditions that are out there right now. And that's dumb, dumb, dumb. People don't use common sense and are not responsible for their own property or their neighbor's property, and it just -- it's idiotic that we have to go through this and tell people what to do; it's crazy. However, we do it. JUDGE TINLEY: Well, we have a motion and second to eliminate the burn ban. Any further question or discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. (No response.) JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Is this the entire 1-26-04 1 ,-- 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 ~. 25 186 90-day deal y'all are eliminating? You'll have to redo the whole thing? JUDGE TINLEY: Burn ban is off. SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: All right. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It can be reinstituted at any time. SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, as long -- it's just when it goes to different precincts, it gets awful confusing. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We're trying to coordinate that. When we go on and off, we're trying to do them the same day, at the same time and all that. But -- SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We appreciate that. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Hasn't worked yet. JUDGE TINLEY: Next item, Number 23, consider and discuss proposals submitted and approval of telecommunications equipment lease or purchase for the Extension Office, and authorize County Judge to sign the same. The proposals are in your materials. The one from Border to Border is a straight-out purchase with an open-ended maintenance on an hourly basis, plus equipment. Those are purchases. The others with Kerrville Telephone -- Kerrville Telephone Business Systems, there are several proposals offered there. One is a -- a straight buyout. Another one is a three-year lease with maintenance. Another 1-26-0~ 1 .-. 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 ..-, 25 187 is a five-year lease with maintenance. All the proposals are laid out there, and if you want to buy out, then you can buy into the maintenance at $44 a month, which is not a whole lot more than $57 a month to lease the equipment and COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What do you recommend, Judge? JUDGE TINLEY: Well, you got all the options there. I'd defer to the Auditor. He's had more experience with these particular type matters than have I. The only thing I would mention is, we're dealing with telecommunications equipment, and sometimes the state of the art moves pretty quick. And -- SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I will make one comment in that. The one we have at the office is a lease for all the Sheriff's Office, the regular phones, and it's a lease with the maintenance. And when we have problems, they do replace them immediately at no cost, whether it's our main telephone, switchboard telephone, or any of the other -- or even telephone cords. They will bring them out the same day and replace them. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What do we have in this courthouse? MR. TOMLINSON: Same. SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Same thing. 1-~~-0~ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 188 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We lease them? JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. Yeah. If -- if you're in a business situation, a lease gives you the advantage of being able to write it off. We're not in that same situation, 'cause we're not a 1040-type taxpaying entity, but -- COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Why did we have a separate system out at the Extension? Why couldn't that be just a -- a part of our main contract with Kerrville Telephone Company? JUDGE TINLEY: It's a separate installation out there. Maybe Tommy can answer that. MR. TOMLINSON: Well, it -- when that facility came online, we already -- courthouse was already under an agreement, so they -- I think at the time that was constructed, they -- the Court just did a five-year lease agreement with -- for a separate system, and that's why it's there. But they can't be part of our system, because this is a computerized system here at the courthouse, and -- COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's not? MR. TOMLINSON: That's not. JUDGE TINLEY: Got -- got a separate system out at Road and Bridge, too. We'll be looking at that one here pretty quick. MR. TOMLINSON: The only thing, if you -- if 1-~6-04 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 189 you choose to purchase, you will have to have a budget amendment, because we don't have -- we don't have anything in the budget to purchase a system for -- for that department. COMMISSIONER LETZ: I agree with the Judge; I don't think -- I mean, I prefer to lease these than buy them. But I'm trying to figure out which one's the best deal. JUDGE TINLEY: Well, you got a five-year lease; you're paying $57 a month, and presumably $44 a month of that is going to the maintenance feature. Three-year, you're paying $68, so that's another $11 a month. Here, again, $44 is going to maintenance. COMMISSIONER LETZ: Border to Border -- they're both buyout? JUDGE TINLEY: They're both purchases. They're not leases. Those are straight-out purchases. That's new equipment. Now, what -- what they would -- what we're dealing with out there is the equipment that's in place, that's not new equipment. You know, if it breaks, they'll -- they'll switch out and put in the new instrument or whatever for a replacement, but that's the existing equipment out there, just to continue under a lease with the maintenance. The Border to Border is -- is new equipment, but that's a straight purchase. One is with voicemail. The i-r~-o~ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 190 one without the voicemail feature is -- is about $1,000, as you can see there. But then, if there's any -- if there's any maintenance or service that has to be done, that's on a straight time basis of $60 a month. That one also would take a budget amendment, would it not, in order to facilitate a purchase? MR. TOMLINSON: Yes. JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So, we have two choices, buyout or purchase? JUDGE TINLEY: Lease. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We don't have a choice of continuing doing what we're doing now? JUDGE TINLEY: Well, you don't want to continue what you're doing now, because that was a higher number. MR. TOMLINSON: Right. Yeah, it's -- JUDGE TINLEY: Our lease figure will go down with this. COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's currently 113, and if we go to another 60-month, it will be 57 plus 44. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Dumb question. JUDGE TINLEY: No, not plus 44. COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's included? JUDGE TINLEY: 57 includes the maintenance. i-~E-u~ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 191 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: If we get the 57, do we have to spend $1,150 -- $1,149? JUDGE TINLEY: No. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So we've got an option right now that can do what we've got and dropping the cost from 113 to 57? JUDGE TINLEY: For -- and that will hold for five years. If we only want to do it for three years, it will come down to 68. COMMISSIONER LETZ: But the -- if the equipment -- if the equipment breaks, it's replaced under the lease? JUDGE TINLEY: Yes. MR. TOMLINSON: Yes. COMMISSIONER LETZ: I move we accept Option 3 with Kerrville Telephone. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. COMMISSIONER LETZ: Go to the 60-month -- well, extended contract. JUDGE TINLEY: Lease? COMMISSIONER LETZ: Lease. JUDGE TINLEY: You seconded? COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second, yes, sir. JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to accept the lease proposal from Advance Telecom Systems - ~ 6 - U 4 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 ..,, 25 192 Corporation, d/b/a Kerrville Telephone Business Systems, for five-year lease, including maintenance, at $57 per month. Any further questions or discussion? COMMISSIONER LETZ: The -- my hesitation is the out clause. If anything in this lease -- if they change or anything like that. Has anyone looked at that? Has the County Attorney's office looked at that? MR. MOTLEY: I've looked at the -- I guess you'd say the sister lease that is going out to Road and Bridge. And Road and Bridge is very happy with the system they have. They've gotten good service out of it, even in bad weather when they had problems, weather-related, act-of-God type stuff, which really doesn't come under their coverage. Road and Bridge has adapted their system specially to make it work with their men in the field. They've got some kind of thing where they can call in. They're happy with theirs. You probably buy brand-new equipment -- probably, you know, like, another six generations ahead of this, you'll probably buy it and pay a fee -- have it installed, and then buy a separate maintenance contract from another company and purchase it for the same. It's possible you could also lease it from other companies, but I don't know any other companies that are in the business of leasing right now. But I'd think if -- you know, if they've been -- I talked to Truby, and she 1-~6-09 1 ..-.. 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 193 said she was real happy with it. And so -- and I need to talk to the people over there, but I -- I don't know -- it's possible that telephone company might want to sell us the equipment, but then again, we would be getting older-model stuff. COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, the buyout -- MR. MOTLEY: They don't even make these phones any more. COMMISSIONER dollar buyout at the end of MR. MOTLEY: after two full lease cycles to buy it for a buck. And, for how long in the past, b phone any more, or anything COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Don't you have a the line? Right, we'll have the phones at Road and Bridge, and be able right now -- and I don't know .~t they do not manufacture this like it. LETZ: I know I made the motion, but I'm wondering if it's smart to go with a three-year lease, even though it costs $11 a month more, to have a shorter term. Which is better? COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'm good either way. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What's the current -- what's the current monthly obligation? JUDGE TINLEY: 113. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Then I think go three. I like three better than five on this kind of 1-E-0~ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 ..-. 25 194 equipment. COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. I'll amend my motion to go with the three-year term. JUDGE TINLEY: Three-year at $68 a month, for COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes. JUDGE TINLEY: You second that? COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Any further question or discussion? All in favor of the motion for lease from Kerrville Advance Telecom Systems Corporation, 36-month term, $68 a month, signify by raising your right hand. (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. (No response.) JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Okay. Next item is consider and discuss the liaison committee assignments of the Commissioners Court members for 2004. I put this on, thinking that possibly there may want to be some shaking up or modifications or changes or whatever. Even if there is none, we probably need to add O.S.S.F., or Environmental Health would possibly be a better designation to go down there. What's your pleasure, gentlemen? 1-?'c-04 1 ~. 2 3 4 5 6 7 195 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. I have a couple of thoughts, believe it or not. I agree that we need to add the Environmental Health, and Mr. Nicholson has been -- has worked with that so closely, getting it over here and getting it established, that he understands the mechanics of it better than anybody at the table, so I'd -- just a suggestion; certainly not a motion. 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 l~ 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second that. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'd be glad to do that, but Jonathan's been up to his knees in septic systems, so to speak, and if he would prefer to do it, then I'm -- COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, I'm more than glad to have you take on sewers. I have my hands full with subdivisions. the tank. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's called passing JUDGE TINLEY: Any other thoughts or suggestions relative to any of those designations? COMMISSIONER LETZ: One that I do have an understanding of -- someone else might, too -- is airport. I don't know if Commissioner Nicholson -- COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'm not married to 23 I that. 24 ..-. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: I think Commissioner Baldwin has an acute interest in that. 1-~E-~~ 1 .-- 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 .~.. 25 196 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I have no interest in any airports. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We need to keep Commissioner Williams on there, 'cause he's the one that knows the most about it. COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is it cumbersome having two? Is it better, or -- I mean, I'm -- JUDGE TINLEY: It is having three. COMMISSIONER LETZ: Three is definitely a problem. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's a problem with COMMISSIONER LETZ: But, I mean, you know, I don't -- COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, the history of two, as you recall, came when Dave's predecessor was there, and it was believed that his aeronautical background might be beneficial. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Why don't we change me to backup, in case Bill's at AACOG or something like that? Then that way, there won't be two of us there. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's a pretty good suggestion. Designate Dave as a backup. JUDGE TINLEY: Primary and alternate. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just like we do on -- i-~6-~~ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 197 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Actually, I personally think that we need two there, because of where we are, and there's some major changes coming down the pike. I mean, this -- it will -- I think very soon it's going to turn into a big deal. I know that we've been kind of talking about it being a big deal, but I think it will very soon be a big deal. And, in order for us to -- to turn that corner and get that product that we want as a -- at the airport, I'd rather see two guys working on it all the time. COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't mind doing it. I just -- COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I mean, I'm talking about just until we get it up and running. Then you can go to the alternate thing. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay with me. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's very, very important at this point, in my opinion. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Let's leave it alone for now, change it next year. JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner, if two's good, three would be great, wouldn't it? COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I tried. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 1, 2, 3? Or 2, 3, 1? Leave it alone? That's fine. 1- i b- U 4 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 ~- 25 198 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Judge? The Law Enforcement/Jail one, not to slam Buster -- Buster, you've been a good liaison, but I'd like to kind of see -- since last year was the first year we did that -- COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You'd like to see what? SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I'd like to see it rotate around through the commissioners, give each one of them a chance to actually see what goes on out there. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I was going to suggest that. Actually, the Judge needs to be -- I mean, that's why you go with -- JUDGE TINLEY: You think I'm the first one going to be there, huh? COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, you're the one that communicates with them; I don't. So why have my name on it if -- if you're going to be the one? So, I think the Judge ought to be in there. SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I don't care who; I'd just like to see it rotate around, everybody get a chance to see everything that we do out there. I have no problem. COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, what's that? COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So I'm putting "County Judge," is what I'm writing. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: In place of, or in 1-^e-o4 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 199 addition to you? COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: In place of. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, you're getting off the hook here, right? How about taking up the library? Would you like to do that? COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Been there and done that. COMMISSIONER LETZ: You're pretty busy. You're on airport; you're on KEDF -- COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: KEDF is not -- I have not attended the meetings. The Judge has been there every time. COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do you want me to delete -- I mean -- well, you can leave your name there as an alternate. Environmental Health? Animal Control? JUDGE TINLEY: Got most of his puppies in order. Right, Dave? COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I don't mind switching or giving up one of them and -- COMMISSIONER LETZ: How about if I took your airport job? COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah. COMMISSIONER LETZ: Let me take the airport? Okay, I'll do that. I've kind of got myself in the middle of it one way or the other out there, I think. I drive by -_'c-04 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 200 three, four times a day, anyway. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What are you switching with -- COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm just replacing Dave at the Airport Board. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Then he's going to come back next month and whine 'cause he's got too much to do. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. I think you ought to take over the library, too. COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, the library is not ready for Jonathan Letz, believe me. JUDGE TINLEY: Sure not ready for him. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: You don't want me over there. JUDGE TINLEY: That's just the point; we may want you over there. Okay. Is that the extent of your pleasure, gentlemen? COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm cool. JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. COMMISSIONER LETZ: I move approval as the -- the Commissioners Court committee assignments as modified today. i-^~:-o~ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 201 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to approve the Commissioners Court committee-slash-liaison assignments as previously designated under Order 27937, except change Dave Nicholson to Jonathan Letz on Airport Board, Buster Baldwin to County Judge on Law Enforcement-slash-Jail liaison, and add Dave Nicholson as O.S.S.F./Environmental Health. Any further question or discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. (No response.) JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Okay. At this point -- MS. SOVIL: Why don't you pay the bills right quick so Tommy can get those downstairs, since it's already 3:00? joke. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Tommy who? That was a COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Why don't we pay the 23 24 bills. 25 _-~6-0~ COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I move we pay the COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. bills? 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 202 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to pay the bills. Any question or discussion? COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Questions. JUDGE TINLEY: All right, sir. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Page 4, Kerr County Collections, under County Attorney, 475. Reimbursement for computer software. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Wait a minute, slow down just a little bit and take me there. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Page 4, County Attorney. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: County Attorney, the top one? COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Uh-huh, last line. 15 -- 158525. MR. TOMLINSON: I'd have to look at the bill. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Bet you Motley will know about it if we just ask him. We had something similar to that last month. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Did we? COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I guess, really, I'm wondering, who are we reimbursing? MR. MOTLEY: It's the Insufficient Funds -- Insufficient Check Fund. 1-~e-o~ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 ..-. 25 203 MR. TOMLINSON: It's the software support for -- there's some audio tapes that they purchased; it's $23.46 and it's -- (Discussion off the record.) MR. TOMLINSON: It's for the support on the -- annual software support for 1/5/04 through 1/5 -- COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's okay. MR. MOTLEY: It's the Pabcon software system written for our office. He writes the proprietary software. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Reimbursing the Hot Check Fund? Is that -- MR. MOTLEY: That's -- the Hot Check Fund paid it. We have funds available, so we reimburse it so we can get it paid in a timely fashion. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Page 8, Hill Country Youth Exhibit Center, 666. There are two items, reimbursement for fuel used -- reimbursing the County Treasurer for fuel used at the Hill Country Youth Exhibit Center? MS. SOVIL: Maybe that was somebody else that reimbursed our Treasurer. JUDGE TINLEY: I'll bet she paid somebody, and then she's being reimbursed out of the budget, probably. MR. TOMLINSON: She probably paid an invoice that someone had -- that had a fuel bill that was for -- 1-~6-~4 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 204 for -- maybe for -- you know, for another agency or -- I just have to look to see what the bill was. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay, fine. That's it. I have no other questions. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Look at Page 16. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, I think I had that one, too. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Speakers, podium mic, powered mixer, hand-held mic. JUDGE TINLEY: That comes out of the Historical Commission budget. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: For Union Church? JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sure could have used that last Thursday and Friday. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We sure could have used it. That's Union Church? COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Friends expenditure. JUDGE TINLEY: Well, yeah, but there's -- they put their money in here. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I understand. JUDGE TINLEY: They've already spent their budget. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We had that last time. That's all I have. i-~n-o~ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 ,.~ 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 205 JUDGE TINLEY: Did you find out what that was, Tommy, on that fuel? MR. TOMLINSON: It's -- it's for equipment -- piece of equipment, for -- it's KCM Number 9, and it's a piece of equipment we use out at the Ag Barn. Probably what happened, this is a journal entry, whereas it got paid out of one account, and this entry is to take it out of Road and Bridge's -- I mean, out of the -- out of -- COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. MR. TOMLINSON: -- the Ag Barn's department. JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Motion made and seconded to pay the bills. Any further questions or discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. (No response.) JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Now go to Budget Amendment Request Number 1. MR. TOMLINSON: Number 1 is for the County Clerk and Nondepartmental, and requesting transfer of $1,048.17 from Liability Insurance in Nondepartmental to Bonds and Insurance in the County Clerk's department, and it's for the renewal of professional liability and for her office. 1-~6-G9 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 .., 25 206 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for approval of Budget Amendment Request Number 1. Any question or discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. (The motion carried by unanimous vote.} JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. (No response.) JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Budget Amendment Request Number 2. MR. TOMLINSON: That's for the Auditor's office. My request is to transfer $25 from Miscellaneous to Books, Publications, and Dues to pay my association dues for the Texas Association of County Auditors. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So moved. COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to approve Budget Amendment Request Number 2. Any further questions or discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. (No response.) JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Do we have i-~~-o~ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 207 any late bills? MR. TOMLINSON: I have another amendment. The -- Road and Bridge called me this morning, and about six or eight months ago, they -- the tower that their radio equipment is on was struck by lightning, and at that time, we replaced part of their system. Well, apparently, yesterday our -- or over the weekend, the base station went out, and they have -- they have in excess of three -- slightly in excess of $3,000 in their Capital Outlay budget that they have not spent that's -- that was saved when we purchased some equipment, and their request is to add $2,068 to the Capital Outlay expenditures budget for -- for the purchase of a base station, a Motorola base station for their radio equipment. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Where do you suggest the $2,068 comes from? MR. TOMLINSON: It's already there. It's -- there's an addendum to the budget that lists the capital expenditures for each department. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. MR. TOMLINSON: They want to place the purchase of that on that list. JUDGE TINLEY: They've already got this money in their Capital Outlay budget? MR. TOMLINSON: Yes, they do. i-~~-o~ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 208 JUDGE TINLEY: They just want to designate it for the purchase of the base station? MR. TOMLINSON: Yes. JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So moved. COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to allocate $2,068 of the Road and Bridge Capital Outlay budget line item for the purchase of their radio base station. Any question or discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. (No response.) JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. MR. TOMLINSON: That's it. JUDGE TINLEY: Is that it? MR. TOMLINSON: That's it. JUDGE TINLEY: No late bills? Okay. Why don't we get the reports out of the way? I have monthly reports submitted by Justice of the Peace, Precinct 3; Justice of the Peace, Precinct 1; Constable, Precinct 3. (Discussion ott the record.) JUDGE TINLEY: Do I hear a motion that these reports be approved as submitted? -~E-04 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 ..... 25 209 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded that the reports as submitted by Justice of the Peace, Precinct 3; Justice of the Peace, Precinct l; and Constable, Precinct 3 be approved. Any further question or discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. morning. that? (No response.) JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: He gave us this this COMMISSIONER LETZ: Are we done with all MS. SOVIL: Except for executive session. JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm, that and the information items. COMMISSIONER LETZ: We can do information while we're here, 'cause I don't have any. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't have any. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't have any. JUDGE TINLEY: We'll go ahead and take up the information item at the very end of the agenda. Do we have any reports in connection with the committee or liaison i-~~-o4 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 ..... 25 210 assignments? COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't have any. JUDGE TINLEY: Other than what is going to be submitted in connection with matters to be heard? Any elected officials or department heads' reports, except as submitted? Court reports and boards, commissions, and committees? I'm sure most of you have received minutes from the Kerrville/Kerr County Joint Airport Advisory Board dated Wednesday, January 14th, and minutes from that same organization dated Wednesday, December 10th. Those were provided to me. I assume that they were provided to others. Those are for your information, and -- COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess I'll -- JUDGE TINLEY: I'm sorry? COMMISSIONER LETZ: I was going to pass it on to the liaison to the airport, but I guess that's me, so I don't need to pass something on. JUDGE TINLEY: I see. I also have the Road and Bridge monthly report for December that all Commissioners also get a copy of. That's also for information purposes. Is there anything else in the way of monthly reports that we need to submit under information items? That being the case, why don't we stand in recess until 3:15, give the reporter a little break, and we'll come back, and then we'll open up and then we'll go into i ~~ 04 1 -- 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 211 executive. We'll stand in recess. (Recess taken from 3:04 p.m. to 3:15 p.m.) JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, it's 3:15. We'll come back to order to the special Commissioners Court meeting posted for this date. Next item on the agenda is executive session, as indicated, closed meeting. That being the case, I will recess the regular Commissioners -- or the special Commissioners Court meeting, and I will now open us in executive or closed session. (The open session was closed at 3:15 p.m., and an Executive Session was held, the transcript of which is contained in a separate document.} JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. It's 4:30, and we're now back in open session. Does -- does anyone have any -- any motion to offer in connection with the matter just discussed in executive session? COMMISSIONER LETZ: I make a motion that we authorize -- Dave? -- Ron, you or David Pearce? Who's doing the negotiations? You? MR. PATTERSON: It's named as me on what we're doing. COMMISSIONER LETZ: Authorize the City Manager to negotiate a lease pursuant to the terms discussed in executive session with Mooney, and that Commissioner 1-~e-o4 212 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Williams serve as liaison on this point, and review the lease prior to approval. Yeah, leave it at that. Does that cover it? JUDGE TINLEY: I'm not sure. Does your motion include Commissioner Williams having the authorization to act on behalf of the Court, and in the event the lease is in substantially the same form as presented to the Court earlier today, to okay the approval and -- and present the same to the County Judge for execution? If not, if he does not deem it to be substantially as presented today, to bring it back to the Court for court approval? COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I heard him say that. COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's -- except the point, I think it needs to come back to the court for approval before it goes to you for signature in either event, probably. JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. COMMISSIONER LETZ: Other than that, I agree with it, that outline. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That will work. JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Thank you. JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded. Any 1-~6-U4 213 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 discussion concerning the motion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. (No response.) JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does pass. Thank you, gentlemen, for being here. We apologize for -- MR. PATTERSON: We'll get out of your way quickly here. JUDGE TINLEY: -- the delay. Let you get your traveling road show gathered up. (Discussion off the record.) JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. It is now 4:34, and at this time, we will go back into executive or closed session. Mr. Motley, do you want to change that back? MR. MOTLEY: Yes, sir, I'll be happy to. JUDGE TINLEY: We'll need to get Commissioner Baldwin back in here. (The open session was closed at 4:34 p.m., and an Executive Session was held, the transcript of which is contained in a separate document.) JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, it is now 5:44, and we will reconvene in open session. Is there anything to be offered? COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, I want to make a 1-26-04 214 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 comment, and -- for the County Attorney, before anything else is said. Everything said in executive session has been said publicly, and, to me, it can be spoken again in open session. I don't think there was anything there related to anything that hasn't been talked about in open court before. And when I started -- when we went into executive session, I made the comment that I would prefer that the entire discussion be made in open court, but because of potential litigation, the County Attorney said we can do it in closed session. But this is the exact same conversation we had in court on two occasions, so anything said has already been said in public. JUDGE TINLEY: Does any member of the Court have anything to offer in connection with what was discussed in closed session? COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, I do. I personally do not think that the County Attorney needs any kind of order from the Commissioners Court, or request. I think that -- that he has all authority to seek the remedies to the question on his own. JUDGE TINLEY: Without any further authorization from this Court? COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir, I do. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Do you agree with that, Mr. Attorney? 1-E-04 215 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. MOTLEY: I don't know that I could bind the County by contract; I don't have the authority to bind the County in a contract that would be the type of contract we discussed. COMMISSIONER LETZ: If you think there's a case, bring a contract back. MR. MOTLEY: I don't think they're going to do a lot of work without the -- without some kind of agreement, some kind of a contingency agreement, I don't expect we'll get much work out of anybody. They -- they don't do this work for free. And I'm not trying to, you know, aid the ambulance chasers society or anything like that. These are people that are skilled in what they do. COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, from your comments we've had for the last several times in court now, it's pretty simple to hand them a transcript. MR. MOTLEY: There will be more to look at than that. anyway -- than that. COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's all -- well, MR. MOTLEY: There should be more to look at COMMISSIONER LETZ: You're basing your decision on that contract -- I mean on those minutes. Not the contract, on the minutes. 1-b-U4 216 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. MOTLEY: I'm looking at the very basic, number-one issue of whether Option 3 was presented. I say it wasn't. COMMISSIONER LETZ: And you're basing -- and you've said that the only thing that's relevant is the minutes. The Judge has said the same thing. MR. MOTLEY: Those minutes are the meeting at which the options were presented. That's where it was. COMMISSIONER LETZ: Show it to an attorney, and if they want to take the case, bring us a contract. MR. MOTLEY: That's not going to work, I'm afraid. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Time to go home. JUDGE TINLEY: It's your belief, Commissioner Baldwin, that the County Attorney has the authority to bind the County in legal matters? COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, sir, not in a contract matter, but to pursue this thing to see what the interest is out there. It -- we don't even know if there is such a lawyer. MR. MOTLEY: That's for me to find. That's why I'm the County's legal adviser. That's my job to find somebody to take care of that. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's exactly right. MR. MOTLEY: And we need to be able to bind i-26-o~ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 217 the County in order to get this thing underway, and I can't just go over there and just walk around, say, "Hey, what do you think about this and what do you think about that?" They need to get into it, sink their teeth in, look at the records, make a substantial investigation before they know what's going on. They're not going to do that for free, without -- COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We can sit here and say this all night long. We're not going anywhere. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. I'll have my final say. I'm -- I continue to believe that there's a strong possibility that the County made a bad decision based on bad advice from the benefits administrator. I would encourage the County Attorney to pursue it to the extent he can. I'll be prepared to make a motion to get a court order to do that, but I'm not in the mood to make another motion that goes unseconded, so I'm not going to do that. COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I agree. I encourage the County Attorney to look into it, find somebody. If they think there's interest, bring it back. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Come back. JUDGE TINLEY: Anything further in connection with this matter? Anything further to come before the meeting? We will stand adjourned. (Commissioners Court adjourned at 5:46 p.m.) i-~~-o~ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 218 STATE OF TEXAS I COUNTY OF KERR The above and foregoing is a true and complete transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as County Clerk of the Commissioners Court of Kerr County, Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth. DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 2nd day of February, 2004. 10 11 12 13 ~. 14 15 16 17 18 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk BY: ___ ____ ~__~______________ Kathy B ik, Deputy County Clerk Certified Shorthand Reporter 23 24 25 1 -z6- o~ 19 20 21 22 Order No. 28494 Long Range Planning Workshop Came to be heard this the 26`" day of January 2004 with a motion made by Commissioner Williams, Seconded by Commissioner Letz, the Court unanimously approved by a vote of 4-0-0, the Long Range Planning Workshop to be held on February 11, 2004 at the Rockin River Inn in Center Point, Texas starting at 9:00 AM. Order No. 28495 Flat Rock Lake Park Came to be heard this the 26th day of January 2004 with a motion made by Commissioner Williams, Seconded by Commissioner Baldwin, the Court unanimously approved by a vote of 4-0-0 the use of Flat Rock Lake Park from Wednesday, April 7th through April 11th, 2004 for Annual Kerrville Chili and BBQ Classic Easter Fest. Order No. 28496 Freezing Ad Valorum Property Tax Came to be heard this the 26`'' day of January 2004 with a motion made by Commissioner Nicholson, Seconded by Commissioner Baldwin the Court unanimously approved by a vote of 4-0-0, the setting of a public hearing on the subject of authorizing the freezing of ad valorum property taxes on the residential property owners who are elderly or disabled beginning in 2005. Order No. 28497 Democratic Convention Came to be heard this the 26th day of January 2004 with a motion made by Commissioner Letz, Seconded by Commissioner Nicholson, the Court unanimously approved by a vote of 4-0-0, the use of the County Court at Law Courtroom on March 27, 2004 for the Democratic County Convention. Order No. 28498 Reduction of Fees for Rabies Drive Came to be heard this the 26th day of January 2004 with a motion made by Commissioner Baldwin, Seconded by Commissioner Nicholson, the Court unanimously by a vote of 4-0-0, approved the reduction of registration fees from $6.00 to $1.00 for Rabies Drive, February 7, 2004 through February 21, 2004. Order No. 28499 Construction Pad site on Should Bee Road Came to be heard this the 26th day of January 2004 with a motion made by Commissioner Letz, Seconded by Commissioner Nicholson, the Court unanimously approved by a vote of 4-0-0, directing the County Attorney to issued a notice to the land owner to remove the construction pad that was Illegally placed. Order No. 28500 Confirming the completion of Construction Per court order 28133 Came to be heard this the 26th day of January 2004 with a motion made by Commissioner Nicholson, Seconded by Commissioner Baldwin, the Court unanimously approved by a vote of 4-0-0, the confirming of the completion of construction of the cul-de-sac from the Court Order 28133. ,.-. ORDER N0.28501 Award Annual Bids Came to be heard this the 26`'' day of January 2004 with a motion made by Commissioner Letz, Seconded by Commissioner Nicholson, the Court unanimously approved by a vote of 4-0-0 the awarding Annual Bids for Equipment by the Hour, Paving Aggregate, Asphalt Emulsions, Corrugated Metal Pipe, Black Base Type AA, Cold Mix Type CC, and Road Base Material as presented by the Road Administrator. Order No. 28502 Information/Technology Policies Came to be heard this the 26th day of January 2004 with a motion made by Commissioner Williams, Seconded by Commissioner Baldwin, the Court unanimously approved by a vote of 4-0-o to set a workshop for February 9th, 2004 at 3:00 pm. Order No. 28503 Resolution Prohibiting the use of Excessive Force by Law Enforcement Agencies Came to be heard this the 26th day of January 2004 with a motion made by Commissioner Williams, Seconded by Commissioner Baldwin the Court unanimously approved by a vote of 4-0-0 a Resolution prohibiting the use of excessive force by law enforcement agencies within our jurisdiction against any individual(s) engaged in non-violent civil rights demonstrations. This is a requirement of political subdivisions that receive Community Development Block Grant Funds, of which we have received $1.5 Million for the Kerrville South Wastewater Project. Order No. 28504 Contract with Region J Came to be heard this the 26th day of January 2004 with a motion made by Commissioner Williams, Seconded by Commissioner Baldwin, the Court unanimously approved by a vote of 3-1-0 the county sponsored contract between Kerr County and Region J. Order No. 28505 Burn Ban Came to be heard this the 26`h day of January 2004 with a motion made by Commissioner Letz, Seconded by Commissioner Nicholson, the Court unanimously approved by a vote of 4-0-0 to cancel the Burn Ban. Order No. 28506 Telecommunications Equipment Lease For the Extension Office Came to be heard this the 26`h day of January 2004 with a motion made by Commissioner Letz, Seconded by Commissioner Baldwin, the Court unanimously approved by a vote of 4-0-0, to accept the proposals submitted and approve the Lease of the Telecommunication Equipment for 36 months at the rate of $68.00 per month. Order No. 28507 Liaison/Committee Assignments of Commissioners Court Members for 2004 Came to be heard this the 26th day of January 2004 with a motion made by Commissioner Letz, Seconded by Commissioner Nicholson the Court unanimously approved by a vote of 4-0-0 Liaison/Committee Assignments of Commissioners Court Members for 2004 as follows: Airport Board Historical Commission Jonathan Letz and Bill Williams Buster Baldwin Library Board AACOG EMS Board 9-1-1 Bill Williams Bill Williams & Buster Baldwin as Alternate Buster Baldwin Buster Baldwin & Jonathan Letz KEDF County Judge & Dave Nicholson as Alternate Maintenance & Courthouse County Judge Facilities Liaison Investment Committee Ag-Barn County Judge, Auditor, Treasurer Bill Williams & Jonathan Letz Animal Control Dave Nicholson Law Enforcement/jail County Judge OSSF/Environmental Health Dave Nicholson Order No. 20508 Claims and Accounts On this the 26`'' day of January 2004 came to be considered by the Court various Commissioners precincts, which said Claims and Accounts are: 10- General $107,032.82 14 Fire Protection $547.89 15 Road & Bridge $31,012.21 18 County Law Library $623.39 19 Public Library $32,265.00 50 Indigent Health Care $18,048.22 80 Historical Commission $1,250.00 Total Cash required $190,779.53 Upon motion made by Commissioner Nicholson, Seconded by Commissioner Baldwin, the Court unanimously approved by a vote of 4-0-0 to pay said Claims and Accounts. Order No. 20509 County Clerk Budget Amendment Came to be heard this the 26`'' day of January 2004 with a motion made by Commissioner Nicholson, Seconded by Commissioner Letz. The Court unanimously approved by a vote of 4-0-0 to transfer $1048.17 from line item 10-409-205 into line item 10-403-206 for bonds & insurance. Order No. 28510 County Auditor Budget Amendment Came to be heard this the 26th day of January 2004 with a motion made by Commissioner Nicholson, Seconded by Commissioner Letz, the Court unanimously approved by a vote of 4-0-0 to transfer $25.00 from line item 10-495-499 to 10-495-315 for books-publications-dues. ORDER N0.28511 BUDGET AMENDMENT ROAD & BRIDGE DEPARTMENT Came to be heard this the 26th day of January 2004 with a motion made by Commissioner Baldwin, Seconded by Commissioner Letz, the Court unanimously approved by a vote of 4-0-0 to purchase a Base Station out of Capital Outlay for $2,086.00 Order No. 28512 Monthly Reports Came to be heard this the 26`" day of January 2004 with a motion made by Commissioner Letz, Seconded by Commissioner Williams, the Court unanimously approved by a vote of 4-0-0 to approve the monthly reports from the following Officials; Justice of the Peace # 1 and #3 Constable #3 Order No. 28513 Lease for Mooney-Occupied Facility at Luis Schreiner Field Came to be heard this the 26th day of January 2004 with a motion made by Commissioner Letz, Seconded by Commissioner Baldwin, the Court unanimously approved by a vote of 4-0-0, authorize the City Manager to negotiate a lease pursuant to the terms discussed in executive session with Mooney, and that Commissioner Williams serve as liaison to review the lease and bring it back to the Court for approval.