1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 9 Special Session 10 Tuesday, May 29, 2001 11 6:30 p.m. 12 Commissioners' Courtroom 13 Kerr County Courthouse 14 Kerrville, Texas 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: FREDERICK L. HENNEKE, Kerr County Judge H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 24 WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 25 LARRY GRIFFIN, Commissioner Pct. 4 2 1 I N D E X May 29, 2001 PAGE 2 --- Visitors' Input 3 3 --- Commissioners Comments 4 1.1 Pay Bills 8 4 1.2 Budget Amendments 10 1.3 Late Bills 27 5 2.17 Resolution honoring Deputy David Billeiter 6 and Deputy George McHorse 7 7 2.1 Expansion of Juvenile Detention Facility 13 8 2.2 Update by Kerr County Historical Commission 30 9 2.5 PUBLIC HEARING - Revision of plat for Lot 1A, Creekwood IB 35 10 2.3 Month of May, "Celebration of Animals Month" 37 11 2.4 Presentation by eStrategic Resources, Inc., 12 on value of county-wide master plan 39 13 2.6 Abandonment of lots in Hartshorn Country Sites Subdivision, set public hearing for same 50 14 2.12 Establish Rainwater Collection Incentive 15 Program, set public workshop on same 56 16 2.9 Change part-time receptionist position to full- time receptionist position, Sheriff's Department 66 17 2.11 Utilize services of U.T.S.A. Center for Economic 18 Development to assist with funding strategy for Hill Country Youth Exhibition Center expansion 69 19 2.13 Discuss rules & regulations for county parks 71 20 2.14 Modification to Subdivision Rules & Regulations 81 21 2.16 Set public meeting & public hearing to finalize 22 adoption of Closed Landfill Inventory 84 23 2.15 Discuss joint acquisition/operation of Kerrville/Schreiner State Park with City 85 24 4.1 Action taken on Executive Session matter 95 25 --- Adjourned 97 3 1 On Tuesday, May 29, 2001, at 6:30 p.m, a special meeting 2 of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in the 3 Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, Kerrville, 4 Texas, and the following proceedings were had in open court: 5 P R O C E E D I N G S 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: All right. It's 6:30 in the 7 evening on Monday -- Tuesday, May 29th, Year 2001. We will 8 call to order this regular special session of the Kerr 9 County Commissioners Court. Will you all join me in a word 10 of prayer, followed by the pledge of allegiance, please? 11 (Prayer and pledge of allegiance.) 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you. At this time, any 13 member in the audience wishing to address the Court on an 14 item not listed on the agenda may come forward and do so. 15 Is there anyone who'd like to address the Court on an item 16 not listed on the regular agenda? Yes, sir? Come forward 17 to the microphone, please. 18 MR. OSWALT: My name is J.B. Oswalt. I live 19 at 114 Royal Oaks. I realize there's not very many original 20 ideas, but this one has been sticking in my head, and so I 21 will present this to the Commissioners for their 22 consideration, if something isn't already being done along 23 that line. It appears that the City is going to take over 24 the state park in some sort of arrangement, and I'm 25 wondering if it might not make sense for the County to deed 4 1 over the county part so that that would be a complete unit 2 down there. Thank you. 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you. Is there anyone 4 else who'd like to address the Court on an item not listed 5 on the regular agenda? Seeing no one, we'll turn to the 6 Commissioners' comments. I'll start this evening. Couple 7 of reminders for all you department heads who are listening 8 out there. Your budgets are due on June 4. I know you're 9 all working diligently. I appreciate the effort, and 10 particularly the people who've come in and worked with me on 11 their budgets. And let's get them in on time so we can have 12 a good budget season. Secondly, I'll remind the Court 13 and -- and address the audience, we do have an Executive 14 Session scheduled today. That will be at the completion of 15 all the other regular business. And, with that in mind, 16 Commissioner Baldwin, what do you have for us tonight? 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I have a lot of 18 things to say, but I'm not going to, because of the sake of 19 time and crowded courtroom. I'm just going to pass on 20 everything. Thank you for the offer, though. 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: Commissioner Williams? 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How about them 23 Antlers? How come you didn't say that? 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's Letz' deal. 25 Tivy fight never dies. 5 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Although we haven't 2 heard the numbers, it does sound like the Texas Arts and 3 Crafts Fair and the Memorial -- 30th Annual Memorial Day 4 extravaganza was successful. Saw a lot of good home folks 5 out there and a lot of folks from far, far places. And 6 that's good. 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: Commissioner Letz? 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Anyone that's going to be 9 in San Antonio Thursday evening, Tivy Antlers will be 10 playing at San Antonio Athletic Complex. They'll be playing 11 Smithson Valley. Anyone who hasn't seen their games, 12 they've been outstanding, some of the best high school 13 baseball you can imagine. We have a great team, a bunch of 14 kids that are -- there's really not just one person that's 15 carrying the team; everyone's stepping up at different 16 games, doing different things. A lot of fun to watch. 17 They've come from behind in every -- almost every game and 18 almost every series, and doing an excellent job. This round 19 is the regional finals. If they win this series, they'll be 20 playing in the state tournament next week. 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay, thank you. 22 Commissioner Griffin? 23 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I'd just like to say 24 thanks to the TexDOT folks here in Kerr County. As most of 25 you probably know, the flood back in October really took out 6 1 a lot of -- of roadside improvements, particularly at the 2 Hunt crossing. It took down a -- the river -- it took down 3 a barrier that was there to keep cars out of the river. 4 That project had never quite bubbled up in priority to get 5 it fixed, and I made a call on Thursday, because of the 6 weekend coming up and thinking it would sure be neat to keep 7 the cars out of the river, and Wayne Pehl and crew got out 8 there and they had it repaired by Friday afternoon. And 9 there were 15 cars in there on Saturday, and the barrier 10 kept them out of the river, so that was -- and everybody -- 11 looked like they were still having a good time. So, thanks 12 to the Highway Department for a job well-done. 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: Very good. One final note on 14 my behalf. I want to offer my congratulations to Butch and 15 Betty Lackey, who celebrated their 50th wedding anniversary 16 last Sunday. As we all know, Butch is a former County 17 Commissioner, and he and Betty have done excellent yeoman 18 work on behalf of all of us in the county, and particularly 19 in the eastern part of the county. And I was not able to 20 attend the -- their celebration Sunday afternoon because I 21 was celebrating my first wedding anniversary, so I'll take 22 them as a shining example of things to come. My 23 congratulations to Butch and Betty. 24 Without any further ado, we'll begin this 25 evening and we're going to deviate from the regular order a 7 1 little bit. We're going to take up the item that's listed 2 on the amended agenda, Item Number 17, make a couple of 3 presentations. We have in the audience -- I'll ask you 4 gentlemen to come forward -- Deputy David Billeiter and 5 Deputy George McHorse, Jr. If you all will come up at this 6 time, I'm going to read these plaques and ask for an order 7 that they be adopted and presented. First of all, 8 achievement awards. This award is presented to Deputy David 9 John Billeiter for outstanding achievement and bravery in 10 his service to Kerr County, Texas. The second one is 11 similar; this award is presented to Deputy George R. 12 McHorse, Jr., for outstanding achievement and bravery in his 13 service to Kerr County, Texas. 14 These two gentlemen are outstanding examples 15 of the superb Sheriff's Department and -- and police -- and 16 law enforcement force that we have in Kerr County. They are 17 by no means exceptional. I know that they would agree with 18 me that the events that caused them to be recognized tonight 19 and recognized over the past couple of months are simply the 20 fact that they were in the right place at the right time. 21 That almost anyone on the force would have acted in the same 22 way is a tribute to their training and their leadership and 23 their courage. But, we honor them tonight as symbols of 24 their service and their ability and willingness to put their 25 lives on the line so that the rest of us in Kerr County 8 1 might be safe. Do I have a motion to present and award 2 these achievement awards? 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So moved. 4 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Second. 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 6 Baldwin, seconded by Commissioner Griffin, that the Court 7 present and award achievement awards to Deputy David John 8 Billeiter, Jr., and Deputy George R. McHorse, Jr. Any 9 further questions or comments? If not, all in favor, raise 10 your right hand. 11 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 13 (No response.) 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Gentlemen. 15 (Applause.) 16 (Discussion off the record.) 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: Sheriff, anything you'd like 18 to add? 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Congratulations. I 20 think it's all been said, how proud I am, Your Honor, of the 21 Department. 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: That was a pleasure. Okay. 23 Let's turn to the regular order and pay some bills. Is our 24 Auditor here? 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't blame him. I 9 1 do have one little, bitty question, and maybe y'all will 2 know the answer. On Page 1 at the bottom, the 3 Nondepartmental, the $230, the top -- top one there. 4 That's -- that's a different number than what we pay every 5 month. That -- 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Charged to a 7 different line, you mean? Or -- 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, different amount. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh. 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: I think that's due to 11 increased fuel costs. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So they're going to 13 increase some on us? 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: Yes. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, I move we pay 16 the bills. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion by Commissioner 19 Baldwin, second by Commissioner Letz, that the Court approve 20 payment of the bills as presented and recommended by the 21 Auditor. Any further questions or comments? If not, all in 22 favor, raise your right hand. 23 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 25 (No response.) 10 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. We have a 2 few budget amendments. Budget Amendment Number 1 relates to 3 J.P. 3. Appears that J.P. 3 is asking us to take $26 out of 4 his Miscellaneous line item and apply it to Part-Time 5 Salary, probably relating to temporary help in his office. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 7 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Second. 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner Letz, 9 seconded by Commissioner Griffin, that the Court authorize 10 Budget Amendment Request Number 1 for the J.P. 3 office. 11 Any further questions or comments? If not, all in favor, 12 raise your right hand. 13 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 15 (No response.) 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Budget 17 Amendment Request Number 2 relates to County Treasurer's 18 office. County Treasurer is asking us to take $250 out of 19 her Employee Training budget, apply to it Conferences, and 20 to take $500 out of Notices and apply it to Office Supplies 21 and Postage. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved. 23 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Second. 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 25 Williams, seconded by Commissioner Griffin, that the Court 11 1 approve Budget Amendment Request Number 2 for the County 2 Treasurer's office. Any further questions or comments? If 3 not, all in favor, raise your right hand. 4 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 6 (No response.) 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Number 3 8 relates to County Court at Law, the Jury Fund. The request 9 is to take $535.50 from the Jury Summons line item and apply 10 it to the Special Court Reporter. 11 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: So moved. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 14 Griffin, seconded by Commissioner Letz, that the Court 15 approve Budget Amendment Request Number 3 for the County 16 Court at Law. Any further questions or comments? If not, 17 all in favor, raise your right hand. 18 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 20 (No response.) 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Budget 22 Amendment Request Number 4 is for Constable, Precinct 1. 23 Request is to take $20 from the Postage line item and apply 24 it to Office Supplies. Any questions or comments? 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So moved. 12 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 3 Baldwin, seconded by Commissioner Letz, that the Court 4 approve Budget Amendment Request Number 4 for Constable, 5 Precinct 1. All in favor, raise your right hand. 6 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 8 (No response.) 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: Next item is Item Number 5, 10 which is a budget amendment request for the County Court at 11 Law Jury Fund from the 198th District Court Jury Fund. The 12 request is to move $22.50 from Interpreters to the same item 13 in the County Court at Law. Any questions or comments? 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 17 Williams, seconded by Commissioner Letz, that we approve 18 line item number 5. Any further questions or comments? If 19 not, all in favor, raise your right hand. 20 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 22 (No response.) 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Since we 24 don't have Mr. Tomlinson here, we don't know about any late 25 bills, so we'll just drive on. Next item for consideration 13 1 on the regular agenda is to consider and discuss 2 presentation on an expansion of the Kerr County Juvenile 3 Detention Facility. Judge? Judge Prohl or Judge Ables, do 4 either of you two have any comments to make? 5 JUDGE PROHL: Thank you, Judge Henneke, 6 Commissioners, for having us here. I'm going to just make a 7 statement and -- and turn it back to Judge Henneke. We have 8 done an analysis of the current status of our Juvenile 9 Detention Center, and have determined that it is now timely 10 and feasible for us to add 24 beds to that facility. And, 11 the key to all this, as we have started out, is that it does 12 not cost the taxpayers of Kerr County to do this, as they 13 have not funded this -- this facility, because of the way it 14 was originally structured. And, just to give you an 15 example, we have estimated that we're losing about seven 16 potential residents a week, and to carry that over a year, 17 that's 2,657 bed days that we are losing at this time. And 18 that's basically our cachement area; Kerr County and the 19 cachement area that Judge Ables and I serve, and then we 20 have some, of course, that are not in this area, including 21 the 33rd Judicial District, which is Boerne, but also 22 includes Gillespie County. 23 The key to that is that we can expand the 24 24-bed facility, and with the current number that we're 25 turning down, the projections over the next 10 years, we can 14 1 immediately fill 89 percent of the bed space that would be 2 available without any -- any attempts -- any advertising, 3 just on the demands that we have now. And, so, I know that 4 Judge Henneke has met with the architect and has met with 5 the financial advisers, and we've discussed how we'd like 6 the set this up, by forming a corporation similar to the one 7 we currently have. The alternative we discussed was the 8 County buying that facility, but if we do that, then the 9 taxpayers go on the hook, and the Juvenile Board was 10 absolutely opposed to the taxpayers being faced with 11 incurring any of this indebtedness since it is a 12 self-supporting unit and has been from day one, and 13 continues to be and will continue to be. 14 So, from that point, we encourage you to take 15 the recommendations that are going to be made, and Judge 16 Henneke is much more -- more articulate about that since 17 he's been meeting with all these people. Judge Henneke, if 18 you would present it, I'd appreciate it. 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: The facts are as Judge Prohl 20 laid out. The facility was built in 1995 -- opened in 1995. 21 It was designed to fill the need at the time. As we all 22 know from recent census figures, Kerr County grew 23 20 percent, Bandera County grew 67 percent, and Kendall 24 County grew 62 percent. These are all within what we'd call 25 the primary cachement area of our detention facility, in 15 1 that they are counties that are served by Judge Prohl and 2 Judge Ables. The expansion that we are embarking upon is 3 designed to continue to enable the facility to serve the 4 primary needs of the children in our -- in our neighborhood. 5 It's driven by the population and not by any other set of 6 circumstances. 7 It happens that right now is a favorable time 8 to do it, as far as bond ratios and financing rates. As I 9 explained to you in a memo I passed out, which is in your 10 packet, we're able to refinance the existing debt, incur the 11 indebtedness for the expansion, and lower our payments by 12 some $7,000 to $10,000 a year because of the favorable 13 financial rates that are available now. The involvement of 14 the Commissioners Court is to create another public 15 facilities corporation, which would be used to acquire title 16 to the facility from the existing public facilities 17 corporation, and this is the dance that's dictated by the 18 esoteric laws of public finance within the state of Texas. 19 And, if anybody has any problems sleeping, they're welcome 20 to call me tonight; within about 10 minutes of my 21 explanation of public finance, you'll be sound asleep. But, 22 the Juvenile Board has met two or three times with our 23 financial adviser, and the output is that this is certainly 24 the way that we recommend we proceed. 25 We're all proud of the Juvenile Detention 16 1 Facility through the programs that are offered out there. 2 It's the finest public juvenile detention facility in the 3 state of Texas, in my opinion. We are one of the very few 4 facilities that is a certified sex offender treatment 5 facility; we're also a certified drug and alcohol abuse 6 treatment facility. We offer -- we offer after-detention -- 7 after-program-completion therapy, after-program-completion 8 monitoring. The focus at the Detention Center is and always 9 has been to treat the children, and not to fill the beds, 10 and I think the fact that we have such a demand is a tribute 11 to the programs which Tanna Brown and Peter and Mike offer 12 out at the -- out at the facility, and Dwight and all of the 13 staff. 14 The timetable is fairly ambitious. Because 15 of the current nature of the financing, in order to 16 refinance and accomplish this, we have to do this by 17 February 1st of 2002 or wait another year. And, it doesn't 18 make any sense to us to wait another year. The timetable is 19 doable. We just have to get started at this time and 20 proceed down the road. At this time, I think it's best to 21 see if anyone has any questions, either for myself or Ms. 22 Brown or Judge Ables and Judge Prohl. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge -- 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Go ahead. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, go ahead. 17 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What is the timetable? I 2 mean, tonight we're just -- this is just to kind of bring 3 the Court up to date? 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: This is to bring the Court up 5 to date, and first meeting in August, we'll have to 6 authorize the creation of the special facility corporation. 7 And, once that's done, really, the Commissioners Court 8 involvement is through, but then the Juvenile Board and the 9 new facilities corporation will have certain benchmarks of 10 time when they have to approve the offering, they have to 11 get the Attorney General to sign off on the bonds, they have 12 to put out the bond offering. And, because of the way the 13 financing is set up, we have to basically sell the bonds by 14 the 1st of November so that we have the cash in hand by 15 December 1st, so that we can give the required 60 days 16 notice to the current bond holder of our desire -- of our 17 intent to pay off the existing bonds on February 1st. 18 That's all driven by the February 1st timetable. You start 19 there and you move back. 20 That's why we started discussions today with 21 the architectural firm of DRG out of San Antonio, Wayne 22 Gondeck in particular, who is very experienced in public 23 facilities. He designed the new jail in Medina County, he 24 was involved in planning the jail facility in Bandera 25 County, as well as several juvenile detention facilities 18 1 around the country -- around the state. I've talked to the 2 judges in three of those counties, and they come highly 3 recommended. Wayne Gondeck used to be a staff member at the 4 Texas Jail Commission, so he's very familiar with the ins 5 and outs of the rules of how we go forward. He will be able 6 to help us in coming up with a number which will have to go 7 into the refinancing. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Final, I guess, 9 question -- you may not know it off the top of your head -- 10 is how much money the facility made for the County last 11 year. I believe the facility usually operates in the black 12 quite a bit. 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: It doesn't really -- this 14 past year, we have actually -- 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Or it hasn't cost -- 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: We operated slightly in the 17 red. We have managed to build up a slight surplus in the 18 three years that we've been operating it, but we don't yet 19 have anywhere near what we need as far as a comfortable 20 operating reserve. The County maintains approximately, you 21 know, 25, 30 percent operating reserve. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: I don't -- we're nowhere near 24 that. So, we do manage the facility very well -- Tanna 25 Brown does. We don't, Tanna does. And, it operates as -- 19 1 as efficiently as is possible. One of the things that the 2 Juvenile Board has done is to authorize a rate increase 3 effective October 1st, which will bring the rates that we 4 charge more in line with the rates that are charged for 5 comparable facilities throughout the state, and that will 6 enhance our cash per diem. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Some of us around here 8 can remember when it was privately owned. We've come a long 9 ways, guys. A long ways. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I believe you 11 answered one of the questions I had. In effect, you're 12 doing a total refinancing, new debt to build the new wing or 13 whatever it is, new facility, and total refinancing of 14 existing debt rolled into one; is that correct? 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: That's correct. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: At a lesser bond 17 rate? 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: That's correct. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The second thing is 20 that the number of beds that you anticipate, coupled with an 21 increase in the beds per diem, will more than adequately 22 take care of your anticipated expense and costs of the bond 23 costs? 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: Yes, and Tommy has worked 25 with us with those figures. He's comfortable with them. 20 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If there is a -- a 2 shortfall, where does the money come from? Who 3 ultimately -- I mean, it's a corporation; doesn't really 4 have any assets other than the facility, correct? 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any shortfall would have to 6 be made up by the Juvenile Board, and in conjunction with 7 the money they get from the State and the money that they 8 receive based on the contracts that they have with the other 9 counties. We're operating the facility. 10 JUDGE ABLES: Have to raise our fees. 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: Yes, we'd basically have to 12 raise the fees. 13 JUDGE PROHL: We're raising the fees for 14 everybody but Kerr County; Kerr County has a discounted 15 rate, if you will, and it will remain the same, although 16 everyone else is going up, so we're trying to work it so 17 that the County receives that benefit. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But if they're -- I mean, 19 if there's -- you have expenses ongoing until you run more 20 in the red than you have reserved for, where does that money 21 come from? 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: It literally comes out of 23 the -- we have to raise the fees. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Raise the fees? 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: We have to adjust -- 21 1 JUDGE PROHL: That's one of the things we're 2 talking about, is our reserve has got to be rather 3 substantial, because you cannot determine in advance the 4 number of bed days that the County will need from year to 5 year. It depends on the activity of the young people. And, 6 in Menard County, we are three times over what we budgeted 7 because of the number of young people that got in trouble 8 and had to stay for an extended period of time. So, you 9 know, it's hard to put a figure on that. That's one of the 10 things we have to talk about constantly, is being sure that 11 what surplus we've got is maintained in the facility for 12 that reason. Because, you know, come -- come the end of 13 July and first of August, when the County is beginning to 14 run out of money, and they sometimes will pull children out 15 because they don't have the money to keep them, and 16 that's -- that's where you run into that question. You got 17 to be able to carry over those lean months at the end of the 18 fiscal year. 19 JUDGE ABLES: The answer is, we don't have 20 any money except for our reserve, and by frugal management. 21 Tommy Tomlinson gives us all the report on pretty much a 22 monthly basis, and when we say we're slightly in the red, 23 just slightly. We've had some -- we've got staff up where 24 we want it to be, we've got salaries where we want them to 25 be. It's just running in the red a little bit, with a -- 22 1 with a pretty good reserve. And, we've gone to Tommy and we 2 said, with this reserve, with more beds, being able to bring 3 in more revenue, what do you think? And, relying a great 4 deal on Tommy, that he thinks that it's solvent, it can 5 handle this project, and it's actually going to be better 6 for us from a revenue standpoint to have more beds than we 7 are right now. 8 JUDGE PROHL: Well, the other thing is -- is 9 the funding -- the income that's brought in is used to 10 expand the programs that are available for young people, and 11 we spend a lot of money doing that, because it's a state-of- 12 the-art facility, and that also consumes money. And, so, 13 part of our reserves go there in that process. 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: Anything else? Tommy, do you 15 have anything you want to add? 16 MR. TOMLINSON: I think you covered it. I'm 17 sorry I was late, but I've been here since 15 till 6:00, and 18 my watch stopped at 20 minutes after 6:00. 19 JUDGE PROHL: Amend your budget for a 20 battery. 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: Did you have a question? 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I just was wondering 23 what the ratio of youth from Kerr County versus other 24 counties in the center. 25 JUDGE PROHL: I'm going to let Tanna answer 23 1 that question. There's a report. 2 MS. BROWN: I know that in our preadjudicated 3 portion of the facility, we were -- about half of our beds, 4 about 50 percent of our beds were filled with Kerr County 5 residents throughout the past year. In our postadjudicated, 6 it's substantially less. We get the majority of those 7 children from out of county. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you. 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any other questions or 10 comments? Judge Stacy? 11 MR. STACY: Gentlemen, I'm -- I was County 12 Judge when we had the problem with our facility when the 13 courthouse penthouse was closed, if the judges will remember 14 that, and the Williams folks took this project on. I have 15 no objection to the expansion of the facility. I have an 16 objection to the ownership. As I understand it now, the 17 ownership resides in the members of the Juvenile Court, 18 which is the County Judge and the two District Judges. In 19 my opinion as a taxpayer, it should be in the hands of Kerr 20 County Commissioners. They should be the owners, and not an 21 offshoot corporation. You just heard -- you should know 22 about the financing. You should have a statement of the 23 financing, of the income and the out-go, and salaries. The 24 salaries are all handled by the County. 25 You have a sign out there that says that it's 24 1 "Kerr County Detention Facility," and why it is in a 2 corporation by these three men, I do not know. That was set 3 up after I left the County Judge, and I think that's wrong. 4 And, obviously, you have a problem. If it was owned by the 5 County, you would have no problem financing it, 'cause it 6 would be on the County's credit, bond issue. So, I would 7 strongly suggest that the County Commissioners take this 8 back in under the County, 'cause you -- these three men can 9 deed it to the County tomorrow. They could have done it 10 today if they wanted to, 'cause they own it, and I don't 11 think that's proper and right, 'cause the County -- it's a 12 County facility. It's a County-run facility, and you're -- 13 you're sitting here and having to ask the questions about 14 the finances, and you should know it, 'cause it's your 15 responsibility. 16 When I was Judge, I asked that very same 17 question, about will the County ever have to take this over 18 if we kiss those bonds -- those bonds would be tax-exempt. 19 And, we got an opinion from our County Attorney then, no, 20 because he had consulted some Waco attorney. We paid 21 $5,000 -- or the Williams group paid $5,000, and that's 22 the -- the result they got back. Well, now the County's 23 running it, so that was wrong. And Bob Henderson said he 24 was against us kissing those bonds in those days then. So, 25 the County should run this facility. The Juvenile Board 25 1 should deed it back to the County. It should be a Kerr 2 County facility run by Commissioners Court. Thank you. 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: I just want to clarify one 4 thing Judge Stacy said. Kerr County is not responsible for 5 the financing at this time, and will not be under the 6 refinancing. 7 MR. STACY: That's what I'm saying. 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: By the same token, Kerr 9 County is not liable, either, for the debt obligation for -- 10 or for any potential liability that might arise out of the 11 operation. And, if you stop and think about what the 12 facility does, which is to deal with the most troubled of 13 the youth in our communities, that may not be a liability 14 that the County wants to incur directly, or indirectly. I 15 think the mechanism that is currently being used and the 16 mechanism that is proposed is the best way to handle this 17 situation. The Board of Directors of the public facility 18 corporation is appointed by the Commissioners Court, and 19 only by the Commissioners Court. When our term expires, you 20 all either -- we all either -- you all -- we all either 21 reappoint us or we find someone else. So, the management of 22 the facility is directly and indirectly overseen by the 23 Commissioners Court. So, I take difference with Judge Stacy 24 and his suggestion that Commissioners Court is not a part of 25 the structure of this organization. I think it's an 26 1 appropriate structure, because, again, it allows us to have 2 the benefits of this excellent facility without having the 3 liability that comes with operation of such a facility. 4 MR. STACY: If I may make a remark to that, 5 one of the reasons why we shut down the penthouse jail was 6 'cause Judge Ables was afraid of a liability suit. 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: That's enough. We're not 8 dealing with the past. We're dealing with the present. 9 MR. STACY: Well, who would pay for the -- 10 the liability would be encountered by the County either way. 11 If you were sued, as a member of that group, you'd go and 12 have the County Attorney -- 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: I would not. I would not. 14 We just had a lawsuit filed that involved the Detention 15 Facility, and we did not use County funds and we did not use 16 the County Attorney. 17 MR. STACY: So you reached in your own 18 pocket? 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: No, we used the surplus that 20 we are trying to build up out there for operations. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Nice to see you again, 22 Bill. 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: Anything else? Okay. We'll 24 move on. Thank you, gentlemen. We appreciate it. Tommy, 25 we did your bills. Do you have any late bills you need to 27 1 have us work on this evening? 2 (Discussion off the record.) 3 MR. TOMLINSON: I came out in the hall and 4 Glenn Holekamp said, "Where have you been?" I says, "In my 5 office." I said, "What time is it?" I still have 6:30. 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: Are there any late bills that 7 you need us to take action on? 8 MR. TOMLINSON: I have two. One is to 9 Walmart for $58.82, and the reason we're bringing it is to 10 not -- it's due on the 11th of next month, which is our next 11 court day, and we have a late charge on there if we don't 12 pay it -- approve it now. 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: What is this for? Who's this 14 from, which department? 15 MR. TOMLINSON: It's for Road and Bridge. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 17 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Second. 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner Letz, 19 seconded by Commissioner Griffin, that the Court approve 20 payment of a late bill to Walmart in the amount of $58.82 21 for Road and Bridge Department and authorize a hand check 22 for same. Any further questions or comments? If not, all 23 in favor, raise your right hand. 24 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 28 1 (No response.) 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Number 2. 3 MR. TOMLINSON: The second one is -- is for 4 -- is also to Walmart for the same purpose; it's for $13.01, 5 and it's for -- for the Sheriff's Office. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So moved. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion by Commissioner 9 Baldwin, second by Commissioner Letz, that the Court 10 authorize a late bill in the amount of $13.01 payable to 11 Walmart on behalf of the Sheriff's Department, and issue a 12 hand check for same. Any questions or comments? If not, 13 all in favor, raise your right hand. 14 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 16 (No response.) 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. 18 MR. TOMLINSON: The last one is to City of 19 Kerrville for $122,878.92, and it's for a half -- one-half 20 of the reimbursement for T-hangars for the project. I 21 received this bill today from Megan Caffall. 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. 23 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: What was the total? 24 MR. TOMLINSON: $122,878.92. 25 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That's about -- so 29 1 moved. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 4 Griffin, seconded by Commissioner Williams, that the Court 5 authorize a late bill in the amount of $122,878.92, payable 6 to City of Kerrville for our share of the T-hangar 7 construction and issue a hand check for same. Any further 8 questions or comments? 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is that total? 10 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: No, that's not, but 11 that's -- I think that billing was supposed to get just 12 about everything. There will be some -- a very small amount 13 left, so we're a little under budget, if that's true. 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: Budget was $160,000, so 15 unless they come up with another $38 thousand in requests, 16 we -- we're under. And I want to thank the City, too, for 17 negotiating the deal with us where, rather than have us put 18 up the money up front, they bill us and we agreed to pay the 19 invoices within three business days. It's worked out very 20 well. All in favor, raise your right hand. 21 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 23 (No response.) 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. 25 MR. TOMLINSON: Did you do the budget 30 1 amendments? 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: Yes, sir. 3 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. Number 5 replaces Item 4 2.8 on the agenda. 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay, good. 6 MR. TOMLINSON: So you don't need to visit 7 that again. 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: All right. Thank you. The 9 next item for discussion is Item Number 2, update by the 10 Kerr County Historical Commission on the Oral History 11 Project. Clarabelle Snodgrass. Welcome. 12 MS. SNODGRASS: Thank you, gentlemen. I'm 13 glad to be here this evening. It's been a while since I've 14 appeared here. The Oral History Project is now about two 15 years old, little over, which is something that I had wanted 16 to be started about five or six years ago, but we had to 17 wait for a lot of things to happen and a lot of people to 18 get together. And, finally we are sort of organized now, 19 and so I've brought you the update on our present status. I 20 believe we've completed 46, I believe it is. Ann Bethel, 21 who is the girl that does the videoing and putting all of 22 this together, has done a good job on bringing this -- 23 getting this ready for you. We have been fortunate in 24 getting some nice people to come to our oral history room to 25 be interviewed. For instance, I'll name one or two; it's 31 1 varied. I'm the one who has been kind of getting the people 2 together and trying to reach different things in the county. 3 We had Mr. J.M. Auld, rancher out on the 4 Divide, and from one of the long pioneer families out there. 5 I was trying to find something about the screw worm 6 eradication program. Well, he was born in 1933, and this 7 program was going on about then, but he did know a lot about 8 it and did some fine explanations about it, and so we were 9 thankful for that. We've gotten other ranch men, like Jack 10 Croft, who has traveled all over the world in the interests 11 of the sheep and goat industry, the world mohair industry, 12 and he gave us a fine resume of some of his work. I haven't 13 talked to him since he got back from Peru, but we got a lot 14 before that. His wife, Walladean, worked with the National 15 Wool Growers Auxiliary for about five years, and to make it 16 with wool contests, where it -- sometimes we'd have 10,000 17 girls a year in that contest, and each year the 50 finalists 18 from all over the country would appear at the national 19 convention, and she coordinated those things. For several 20 years we had the office here in Kerrville, and we did a lot 21 of work. We had a lot of ranch gals that helped out with 22 that. 23 We got Mr. Clyde Jones, who was one of the 24 early men with the radio station. Mr. Louis Heimann, who 25 drove for the bus company for 40-something years. 32 1 Mrs. Cybil Sutherland, who taught longer in the Kerr County 2 schools than any other teacher, and she has a journal that 3 she started, oh, 40 or 50 years ago or maybe longer, that 4 she's brought everything up to date, and I could not get 5 over one person having that much information. 6 One of the nicest things we did get to do was 7 when we did the James Kerr marker out here last December, 8 and we learned of some of the Kerr relatives that we'd never 9 heard of until about two weeks before that occasion. A 10 great granddaughter from over at the lake came over, and she 11 brought letters that James Kerr had written to his brother, 12 Richard, in New Mexico back, like, 1824 and through those 13 early years. She allowed us to copy those and put those 14 into our oral history books, into our Heritage Center. Her 15 husband also came over and was on the program that day, and 16 the Judge missed that program that day because it was just 17 two days before Christmas, but it was one of the finest 18 marker things we've had. 19 So, through a lot of the ones that we've 20 gotten, we're just so proud to reach those. I made a list 21 of 98 people about four years ago to be interviewed, and 22 about 25 of those have died because of their ages and 23 illnesses and so forth. I called Bill Stacy one day to let 24 me interview him, and he said he was too young, but we're 25 going to get him too. I said, "We're having to come down 33 1 into the 80's and 70's now. But, you'd be surprised at the 2 amount of information we are getting together on this. 3 We give a book that has been typed off from 4 the tape we do to the person. We also keep that -- one of 5 the copies -- a copy of that in the Heritage Center. We do 6 a videotape, which, of course, cannot be altered, but the 7 tape -- the little tape that we do can be edited, and the 8 person has the right to take out or put in any extra things, 9 or they also have the right to not use their information if 10 they so desire. Otherwise, it is there for the public use. 11 And, we hope it will mean a lot in the future of Kerrville, 12 looking back at the past, so we're real proud of it. And, 13 in June we're planning to try to get a few more people 14 together. There's been too many other things going on 15 recently to keep it going, but we're -- we're still working 16 at it and we're very, very proud of it and we're proud of 17 your helping us out to get started with it, because it's 18 something long overdue. 19 I might add, I'm co-chairman on that 20 committee. Also, I believe our chairman, Walter Schellhase, 21 said you kind of needed an update on the markers in Kerr 22 County. He said, "I don't know where they are." I said, "I 23 know where every one of them is." In April, I spent two 24 days going from one end of the county to the other, checking 25 out the markers to see what condition they're in or if we 34 1 needed to do anything. I called Austin, and our Commission 2 is responsible to do this and check on those occasionally, 3 which has not been done for about 10 years. I found four in 4 the county that do need repainting, and I've gotten 5 instructions from Austin how to do it. All we need is help 6 to do it. And, as someone said, "Who's paying for the 7 paint?" I said, "We'll cross that bridge when we get to 8 it." But, there are several. One -- one marker, the 9 Sherman Mill marker above Ingram, has been unscrewed from 10 the base -- the pipe unscrewed from the base and the marker 11 thrown down the riverbank twice this year. A neighbor 12 called the Highway Department and they've replaced it, but 13 the post is badly rusted and it needs some help, too. But, 14 we're still working on that. 15 I believe there are 54 markers in the county. 16 We have about three marker dedications pending right now. 17 We have some applications out still. And, Mrs. McBride 18 started this in 1977, and we've continued to get markers 19 each year, and we're hoping to do a good many more before we 20 stop. I've been on the Commission 25 years, so that's why I 21 know where all the markers are. So, there's some rather 22 detailed things in there of where the markers are, and I 23 won't go into all that, because the State did do some of 24 them, too, before we got started. Thank you very much. 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you. That's a 35 1 wonderful service you all do. I'm just thrilled about the 2 oral history. 3 MS. SNODGRASS: Thank you. 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: At this time, we need to have 5 a public hearing, which is Item Number 5 on our agenda. At 6 this time, the Kerr County Commissioners Court will recess 7 and we will open a public hearing on revision of plat for 8 Lot 1A of Creekwood IB in Precinct 2. 9 (The regular Commissioners Court meeting was closed at 7:15 p.m., and a public hearing 10 was held in open court, as follows:) 11 P U B L I C H E A R I N G 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: Is there anyone here from the 13 public who'd like to address the Court on the issue of a 14 revision of plat for Lot 1A of Creekwood IB in Precinct 2? 15 (No response.) 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: Once again, is there anyone 17 here who would like to address the Court on revision of plat 18 for Lot 1A of Creekwood in Precinct 2? Seeing no one, we 19 will close the public hearing and reconvene this regular 20 session of the Kerr County Commissioners Court. 21 (The public hearing was concluded at 7:16 p.m., and the regular Commissioners Court 22 meeting was reopened.) 23 - - - - - - - - - - 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, this is a real 25 simple revision of plat, and last time it was presented, the 36 1 County Engineer and I -- we needed to find out whether or 2 not there were any deed restrictions that prevented 3 subsequent revision of or separation of -- splitting up of 4 the parcel of land. We've determined that there is none. 5 Is that correct, Franklin? 6 MR. JOHNSTON: That's correct. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And I don't believe 8 there are any other reasons that we need to look into it. I 9 would move the plat revision for Lot 1A of Creekwood Estates 10 IB, as presented. 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: Commissioner, I'm reminded by 12 our watchdog that action on this is not posted. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm sorry. 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: So we will have to -- 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We're in the public 16 hearing. 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: Yes. There is no action item 18 on the agenda for approval of the revision of plat. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Then we won't revise 20 it tonight, then, will we? 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: No, we won't. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We'll try it again 23 another night. 24 MR. JOHNSTON: I think the plat wasn't 25 complete. I think it will be on for next time. 37 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sorry about that, 2 Judge. 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: Let's go back to Item Number 4 3, which is consider and discuss declaring the month of May 5 "Celebration of Animals Month." Commissioner Baldwin. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. Judy, as 7 you come up, I'd like to -- come up to the podium, please. 8 I'd like to announce, this is my friend. Judy Phillips, and 9 any time that you would get a person like Judy and myself 10 together on an issue -- you can see that we're wanting to 11 declare the month of May, now that it's June, Celebration of 12 Animals Month, so -- and I'm really kind of a follower in 13 this thing. This is Judy's program, and so take her away, 14 Judy. 15 MS. PHILLIPS: Thank you, Buster. Good 16 evening. My name is Judy Phillips, and I'm representing the 17 Humane Society of Kerrville. About three or four years ago, 18 we asked that you all declare the third Saturday in April as 19 Celebration of Animals Day. We would like to ask you to 20 switch that to the month of May, the reason being, we are in 21 conflict with Riverside Nature Center's Earth Day, which 22 falls on the third Saturday of April, as well as the March 23 of Dimes walk that they have falling on the same day. So, 24 we started trying to come up with a date that would be 25 appropriate and not conflict with so many other activities 38 1 going on in Kerr County. And, not being able to arrive at a 2 specific date in May, I thought, well, maybe we could try 3 for the entire month of May, which would give us the freedom 4 to then select a Saturday appropriate for whatever the 5 respective year is. Thank you. 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you. Any questions? 7 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: So, this is for the 8 future? 9 MS. PHILLIPS: This is beginning Year 2002. 10 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Okay. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do we have to do them 12 each year, or can we do it one time? 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do it one time. 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: Do we have a motion? 15 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Do you want to make a 16 motion? 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'd like to make the 18 motion that we declare the month of May as Celebration of 19 Animals Month in Kerr County. 20 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Second. Excuse me, 21 Judy's my friend, too. 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 23 Baldwin, seconded by Commissioner Griffin, that the Court 24 declare the month of May in Kerr County to be Celebration of 25 Animals Month. Any further questions or comments? 39 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'd like to comment 2 that my good friend on the other end of the table, I 3 replaced him as judging a doggie-dog show one day, and here 4 I am declaring a whole month. That's how they get you. 5 See, they get you and suck you into these things. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: But you only have two 7 days left to go. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I know. This is 9 exciting. 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any further questions or 11 comments? If not, all in favor, raise your right hand. 12 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 14 (No response.) 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Thank you, 16 Judy. We appreciate it. Moving right along, the next item 17 is Item Number 4, which is consider and discuss a 18 presentation by Bob Williams of eStrategic Resources, Inc., 19 on the value of a county-wide master plan. Commissioner 20 Williams, do you want to make the introduction? 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, I will. Thank 22 you, Judge. And recognizing for my colleagues, before we 23 even get started, that we have no budget considerations for 24 such an item at this point, so therefore we're not going to 25 be talking about how we would get the money together to do 40 1 so. If we have a mind to do so, we can always do that at a 2 later date when we're talking about budget. Comprehensive 3 master planning for government jurisdictions is a logical 4 extension of preparedness and how future challenges are 5 brought about. We hear and we read all too much about 6 counties and cities that face major infrastructure and 7 related crises because their area of growth outstripped 8 their preparedness, placing them in the unenviable position 9 of always having to catch up. 10 Currently, the City of Kerrville, as we all 11 know, is engaging itself in a comprehensive planning 12 exercise, and our Commissioner Letz represents the Court on 13 the Comprehensive Plan Advisory Committee. Conversely, Kerr 14 County does not have a comprehensive plan, and we are not 15 working with the City at this point, although it might be a 16 good idea if someday we decide to do that. I invited Bob 17 Williams, who I'm going to say right here and now is not a 18 relationship -- there's no relationship. He's a partner in 19 eStrategic Resources. I met Bob when he and I were doing 20 some work on the AACOG Oversight Committee on some of the 21 projects that they review, and I know that this is some of 22 the things that he does, and consults the courts and the 23 city jurisdictions about it. And, I invited him to be with 24 us tonight to tell us about the value, if any, to a county 25 to do this. 41 1 Prior to forming eStrategic Resources, Bob 2 was a Manager of Regional Development for Lower Colorado 3 River Authority. And, Bob, it's all yours. 4 MR. WILLIAMS: Thank you, Commissioner. And, 5 Judge, I'll try to continue to address you as a Judge, not a 6 member of the L.C.R.A. board who was my boss for six years, 7 I guess. 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: That's before I got elevated. 9 MR. WILLIAMS: Before you got elevated, true. 10 Well, I appreciate the opportunity to come before you. This 11 has sort of been most of my life in working with the city 12 and county governments, and I was even fortunate or 13 unfortunate enough, I don't know which way to say it, to be 14 mayor of Leon Valley for four years. And Leon Valley was 15 4,000 when I became mayor; when I left it was 10,000, so 16 I've had a little bit of experience trying to deal with 17 population growth and -- and those kinds of issues. But, in 18 talking to Commissioner Williams, he had asked me to come 19 before you to sort of lay out a concept of why it's 20 important to have a master plan. There are a lot of 21 communities and a lot of counties in the state of Texas who 22 do not have master plans, who do not really have any kind of 23 map for the future. 24 I think now, though, what is beginning to 25 happen across the state and the counties and in cities is, 42 1 because of the tremendous population growth -- for instance, 2 the Judge mentioned that Kerr County has a 20 percent 3 population growth -- that suddenly the items that have been 4 in place before, the agendas and the -- and all of the 5 ordinances that have been set up before, all have to be 6 looked at and questioned because of the sudden growth. Not 7 only because of the sudden growth, but the nature of that 8 growth, and what we're talking about in terms of a lot more 9 young people being put in the midst of our communities, a 10 lot more folks in different ethnic groups being a part of 11 communities. And, especially when you look at the state of 12 Texas, you can see that there is a tremendous growth pattern 13 all over the state. 14 When I was working at L.C.R.A. we were 15 responsible for 52 counties, and it was interesting way back 16 in 1990, I believe, or '91 when I started, that about 16 of 17 those counties were losing population. Now, I don't know 18 what has happened, necessarily, but now when I look at those 19 statistics again, every one of those 52 counties has grown 20 at least 5 percent, some of them up to 47 to 50 percent. 21 So, the population growth is everywhere. It's an issue that 22 we have to deal with and an issue that the State needs to 23 deal with. 24 What I attempted to do was to try to answer 25 some of the questions related to why have a master plan. I 43 1 think it gives you, as Commissioners Court, the ability to 2 develop strategies in relationship to all the different 3 issues that arise. For instance, many communities right now 4 are trying to deal with what they call "growth management." 5 How do you handle all the growth that is suddenly coming 6 into being? The other thing is the whole environmental 7 issue, now that we're much more sensitive to many 8 environmental issues in terms of our needs. The whole issue 9 of water. Where we know that oil used to be the most 10 important thing in Texas, probably water, in this day and 11 time, is one of the most important issues. 12 So, what I've attempted to do is just mention 13 and go through these things that Commissioner Williams asked 14 me to look at, and to talk to you about the process, the 15 process that we usually use in developing such plans as 16 these. And -- and we just worked recently with the City 17 of -- of Boerne, and I'm going to introduce Larry Travis in 18 a moment who works with me on a lot of these different 19 issues, and several different counties that we have worked 20 with which I can give you a list of at one point. But, 21 mainly, what we try to do, first of all, is conduct an 22 inventory as to what presently is happening. What is the 23 present status, for instance, of law enforcement and fire 24 protection? And what is the present status of the 25 transportation systems in your county? And what is the 44 1 present status of housing? And here we also list airport 2 and economic development, which is a very large one. All of 3 these issues need to be addressed in terms of looking to see 4 what is presently happening. 5 Then, to relate to the historical data that 6 we gather at that point, you need to look at the population 7 growth to understand how the present is being affected by 8 the population growth. It's also related to state planning. 9 As you know, we just finished a large plan for the State of 10 Texas for water, and I know that you were a part of one of 11 the regions that has a regional water plan. Also, the 12 regulatory authorities that the counties have need to be 13 looked at in light of the growth, in light of the projected 14 plans that you could have. 15 I could go on and on, and you could see the 16 way that we're trying to accomplish this. We feel it's 17 important to have citizen input and staff input into any of 18 the findings and to any of the recommendations that we make 19 as we look at all of these different issues. We also try to 20 say that we believe you need to project probably for the 21 next two, five, and ten years. Not only what your staffing 22 is going to be, but what your budget needs are going to be, 23 what your transportation needs are going to be, what your 24 water needs are going to be, your wastewater needs. All 25 these are a part of the development of a strategic -- or a 45 1 master plan. We also -- when you look at the law 2 enforcement and fire protection, we try to look at the 3 instances that have already taken place in your county and, 4 again, project the population, project the possibility of 5 the future in those particular areas. 6 We also try to work with the State when you 7 talk about transportation, because the State has 8 transportation plans for just about every county, and that 9 also includes maintenance for rural roads. Where do you 10 find the money to take care of what you already have? It 11 also talks about low water crossings. It also talks about 12 bridges. These are all part of the needs that have to be 13 addressed. And, certainly, the whole issue of water and 14 wastewater. I probably don't need to say anything to you 15 necessarily about that, but with the -- with the Upper 16 Guadalupe River Authority working with you, I think that 17 they work in several different areas. Not only water, but 18 also the wastewater. I believe that they oversee your 19 septic tank system and licensing at that point. They 20 also -- we need to look at all of the different people who 21 are regulatory in terms of water, in terms of wastewater. 22 And, preservation. You already have a Main 23 Street Project going that needs to be looked at and 24 enhanced. But, there again, you want to try to get citizen 25 input and other input in terms of what do you want to 46 1 preserve and where are you going to find the money to make 2 sure that you preserve the history that you want and you 3 need in your county? The airport, I'm presently working 4 with Hondo on a -- a ramp grant. I understand y'all got a 5 ramp grant just recently, and I'm also working with them on 6 an expansion grant, a $5 million grant, because they want to 7 expand their airport to try to make it an economic hot spot 8 in Texas, and so I'm working with them. I'm also working 9 with Bexar County -- Boerne County Sheriff's Department in 10 terms of setting up a -- a telecommunications system for the 11 entire county that involves the EMS, that involves the local 12 police system, that involves the Sheriff's Department, and 13 -- and involves the fire department. I'm working with some 14 grants for Bexar County in terms of equipment for the 15 Sheriff's Department. There are -- 16 (Beeper noise.) 17 MR. WILLIAMS: Is that me? 18 MS. PIEPER: No, it's me. 19 MR. WILLIAMS: I'm sorry. I was going to 20 say, I thought I took my beeper off. Working in those 21 areas, which I think are very important. I could go on and 22 talk about housing. My background -- basically, what I did 23 at L.C.R.A. was basically to work with economic development 24 and find the type and the -- of growth that you want, the 25 type of business that you want to bring in, how you do that, 47 1 how you develop that. It also -- I would be willing to -- 2 and very open to working with other economic development 3 groups that are already here, such as your Kerr Economic 4 Development Foundation and -- and the Chamber and different 5 groups along those lines. So, basically, what I'm really 6 saying to you is that the need that you have, I think, for a 7 master plan really comes down to some very simple kinds of 8 things. 9 One is it gives you a tool that you presently 10 do not have. It's difficult to project into the future to 11 say what is the budget of the Sheriff's Department going to 12 be five years from now? What should it be? What is the 13 budget in terms of -- of relationship to what you need to 14 set aside for water planning and wastewater planning? 15 That's hard to tell. What's it supposed to look like in 16 five years? Will you have the money? How much water are 17 you going to need? Is the population going to go beyond 18 20 percent growth? All these issues need to be addressed, 19 but you need to have a tool in place that gives you the 20 ability to develop strategies for each one of these issues 21 that you, as Commissioners Court and future Commissioners 22 Court are going to be addressing. So, what I look at a 23 master plan for is sort of a guidance tool the Commissioners 24 Court can look at or City Council can look at in terms of 25 planning for the future, to make sure that the policies and 48 1 the ordinances are all passed, and how you decide what 2 policies are important and which ones are not. All come 3 from this whole process of looking at the value and the 4 importance of a master plan. 5 If you give me just a second, I'll ask Larry 6 to give you a few more ideas. When we looked at Kerr 7 County, there are a lot of different issues, and I'll let 8 Larry talk to you for just a second. I know I don't have 9 much time, Judge. For just a second, talk about -- for 10 instance, all of this really boils down to a land use plan, 11 which means that you have to have that land use plan in 12 place to determine a lot of these things that I have talked 13 about. 14 MR. TRAVIS: Gentlemen, thank you. I'll make 15 it short. There are some planning issues that are unique to 16 Kerr County, and I'm going to list those. First of all, 17 Area Number 1 is the county beyond any incorporated 18 municipality. There is another area, which I call Number 2, 19 which is the extraterritorial jurisdiction in the city of 20 Kerrville, which is a planning area of the county and a 21 planning area of the city, and is one that needs to be 22 coordinated. There is a third area, which is the smaller 23 municipalities, unincorporated, and incorporated 24 municipalities; they have certain requirements, and that's 25 another planning area. 49 1 I would think that we -- we would 2 particularly need to pay attention to the ETJ, the 3 extraterritorial jurisdiction of Kerrville, because there is 4 a planning effort going forward there now, and like I say, 5 that's a dual type of situation where both the City has 6 subdivision regulations, regulatory authority -- they do not 7 have zoning authority in the ETJ. The County has interests 8 in that area that need to be coordinated along with 9 wastewater and some of these things that Bob has mentioned. 10 So, interlocal communication, interlocal coordination, is a 11 part of it. And, we would -- we would help facilitate the 12 work that's going on, because -- and your engineer will 13 appreciate that. There's a good example of no planning in 14 San Antonio. Basse Road, which is a major thoroughfare at 15 Blanco Road, is offset by 100 feet, so the City has spent 16 thousands of dollars trying to put a signal system in there 17 that works. It doesn't, and the number of wrecks and 18 everything is unbelievable, simply because nobody made those 19 center lines line up. And, that's kind of a basic example. 20 I'm sure your engineer, when he looks at plats, comes down 21 hard on that, but that's kind of an example of the planning 22 issues that we deal with. 23 MR. WILLIAMS: Any questions, Judge? 24 Commissioners? 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: Questions or comments? 50 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Not at this time. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you very much, 3 Bob. Appreciate your taking the time, both of you, to come 4 in and give us a presentation. 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: It's a timely presentation, 6 particularly in light of what the City is doing, and 7 something we need to be cognizant of. I appreciate it, Bob. 8 Thank you very much. 9 MR. WILLIAMS: Thank you. Look forward to 10 seeing you again. Thank you. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Thank you. 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. Next item on the 13 agenda is Item Number 6, which is consider and discuss 14 abandonment of Lots 13, 14 and 19 and all of Lots 15, 16, 15 17, and 18 of Hartshorn Country Sites Subdivision found in 16 Volume 1, Page 68-69, and set public hearing for same. 17 Franklin? 18 MR. JOHNSTON: I think it's the intent of 19 James Avery Craftsman to get all of their property along 20 James Avery Drive to be in one plat. Right now, it's a 21 combination of several lots in the Hartshorn Subdivision, 22 and some acreage. And, in order to tie it -- there he is. 23 Charlie's back there. In order to tie all this together 24 with their utilities and all, they -- they would like to 25 have it all in one subdivision. In doing so, the plats -- 51 1 the lots in the Hartshorn Subdivision will need to be 2 abandoned and then coordinated into this subdivision. I 3 think it would be a two-step -- 4 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: It's step one of two. 5 MR. JOHNSTON: Two-step process, yeah. 6 They'd have to go through an abandonment and then replat it. 7 We have two items on the agenda. 8 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: This requires -- 9 MR. JOHNSTON: Consider abandonment, and 10 then -- 11 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: This requires a public 12 hearing. 13 MR. JOHNSTON: Yes, it does. Do you have 14 anything to add, Charlie, on that? 15 MR. DIGGES: Just that we're making -- taking 16 ten tracts and going down to four tracts. We're not 17 increasing the number of tracts, we're going the other 18 direction. And, there -- it's really a matter of 19 housekeeping that we're doing this. We've now discovered 20 they have some unplatted property on the south side of James 21 Avery Craftsman Road. And, on the other side is where the 22 Hartshorn Addition is, and there's been some partial lots 23 that have been created by past purchasers, and we just want 24 to clean up the whole thing and try to put it into one 25 subdivision if -- if possible. That abandonment process 52 1 is -- I hear it takes 75 percent participation -- approval 2 from the residents. We think we can get that. If we don't, 3 then we may drop back and -- and do a replat of just the 4 Hartshorn parcels, and that would be one subdivision, and 5 then we would still proceed with the acreage tracts becoming 6 James Avery Craftsman Subdivision. 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: So, are you saying you don't 8 have the approval of the owners in one of these subdivisions 9 of the abandonment yet? 10 MR. DIGGES: No, not yet. What we're asking 11 for is preliminary plat approval, with the understanding 12 that the public hearing would be set for you all to get 13 their comments, and then in the interim, that we would be 14 working on the coordination with the landowners there, 15 getting their written, notarized approval of -- of this, and 16 then coming back to Commissioners Court. We would suggest 17 at least a 60-day window in order so that we could have time 18 to accomplish that. 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: Seems to me like we almost 20 have the cart before the horse here. You're asking the 21 Commissioners Court to set a public hearing on abandonment 22 when you don't know that you have the requisite legal 23 approval for the abandonment from the homeowners. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I agree. I mean, I think 25 that conceptually, you know, we can get -- conceptually, I 53 1 personally think it's a good idea. 2 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Sure. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it's -- about all 4 that you can get from the Court today is if the Court's in 5 agreement on the -- on the concept, but then I think you 6 need to go get the signatures and -- you know, in the 7 Hartshorn Subdivision, and then work on through the 8 preliminary platting process, you know, do that portion of 9 it. 10 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Actually, the way that 11 could work is -- is you could get the -- use the 30, 45 days 12 or so to get the signatures, come back to the Court; we can 13 set the public hearing then, you know, two weeks or four 14 weeks after that time and do the whole thing, have the 15 public hearing and then approve the -- the preliminary 16 replat as well. 17 MR. JOHNSTON: Probably need to have that 18 approved before the replat's considered. It would be 19 premature also to do that. 20 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: You have the 21 signatures, then you could have the public hearing in that 22 same session. We could also approve the abandonment, is 23 what I'm saying. 24 MR. DIGGES: Okay. 25 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: And have the public 54 1 hearing. But you've already got the signatures, you have 2 the public hearing, we do the abandonment, and -- and 3 assuming that that abandonment goes through, you could even, 4 at the same session, consider the preliminary plat then for 5 the replat. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do it all at one meeting. 7 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yeah. 8 MR. DIGGES: And they're -- they're not 9 contemplating changing anything in their normal operation, 10 how they've been conducting themselves out there, the type 11 of activities that they've been doing. And, the good 12 neighbors they've been to the folks out there, they're not 13 changing anything that way. There's not even any -- at this 14 time there's no additional buildings that are contemplated, 15 because they're conscious of green space and aesthetics, and 16 so we're hopeful that abandonment will go well with the 17 neighbors. But, this is my first time through an 18 abandonment process, and I'm not aware of what the proper 19 legalities are and what we can ask for at this time. And, 20 if just we can get a conceptual nod of approval, then we'll 21 come back at that appropriate time and -- and ask for a 22 public hearing. 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: I think it's safe to say that 24 the Court is in general agreement that there is no problem 25 with the concept you've got here, as far as consolidation, 55 1 abandonment, but it's always been our policy that we don't 2 act on the legal matters such as abandonment until such time 3 as all the landowners -- or the requisite number of 4 landowners have given their consent to the action. 5 MR. DIGGES: Okay. 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: For instance, we don't 7 abandon a road until we're presented with a petition that 8 says that all the road -- the owners who are affected by the 9 closing are in agreement with the abandonment. We can't set 10 up a road district until we have a petition from all the 11 land -- the requisite number of landowners saying they want 12 a road district. 13 MR. JOHNSTON: Each owner getting a signed 14 document, having it notarized that to the effect that they'd 15 be in favor of this scheme. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The language -- and, 17 actually, I believe the language is going to be 18 "cancellation of subdivision" and "revision of subdivision" 19 terminology. And, the language in our Subdivision Rules is 20 straight out of state law, and it gives, I mean, just very 21 lengthy -- and it's exactly how to do it. Our Subdivision 22 Rules are very explicit on these two items, as to how it's 23 done, who -- you know, the timing and the notices, 24 everything. So, this is -- because our Subdivision -- 25 because it's a very confusing area, we just copied basically 56 1 Section 232 verbatim on those two areas. But, the 2 terminology, I believe, is cancellation. Cancellation, not 3 abandonment. And it's under that section under Subdivision 4 Rules. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But, as far as the 6 concept is -- as far as the concept is concerned, you're 7 doing the right thing. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 9 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yeah. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Doing a good thing. 11 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Good idea. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Good idea. 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. Do we want to go on, 14 then, to Number 7, which is consider the preliminary plat of 15 the subdivision? Or -- 16 MR. JOHNSTON: I think that's premature at 17 this time. We can skip that one. 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: All right. 19 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: But it's good, because 20 now you can see where it's headed because this is like a 21 concept plan at this point, right? 22 MR. DIGGES: Thanks, y'all. 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you. Okay. Let's go 24 to Item Number 12 next, if we may, gentlemen, which is to -- 25 since we have several people in the audience for that one -- 57 1 consider and discuss establishing a Kerr County Rainwater 2 Collection Incentive Program, et cetera, and set a date for 3 public workshop on the same. Commissioner Williams. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Lots of things here, 5 Judge. Commissioner, help me get some of this stuff out. 6 (Discussion off the record.) 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Take one of these for 8 yourself. Put one on -- 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is this sealed? 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: This is what you get 11 when you go to a workshop on rainwater. Almost daily we 12 talk and we hear about water, water this and water that. 13 Water availability, water quality, water diversion, water 14 conjunctive use, water pumping limitation, greywater, white 15 water, whatever kind of water, Region J statewide master 16 plan; you name it, and we're into it. And, somewhere on the 17 fringe of these discussions occasionally we have learned of 18 isolated efforts of something called rainwater harvesting. 19 In reality, we have persons in Kerr County who are not only 20 proponents, but practitioners of rainwater collection and 21 utilization. Even though the concept has been around since 22 the beginning of time, it's now beginning to invade our 23 consciousness, and that's what we're here to talk about 24 tonight. 25 What is rainwater harvesting? How can we do 58 1 it? Why should we, or who should do it? What are its 2 benefits? Is this just for farmers and ranchers or for 3 persons living in the county with larger home sites, or can 4 city dwellers participate? How does local government fit 5 into this equation? Through the introduction of this 6 initiative tonight, what I seek to do is put Kerr County in 7 the forefront of the discussion on this issue by creating 8 encouragement and an incentive for property owners to engage 9 in rainwater collection and utilization, thus making 10 efficient use of our region's limited and precious resource. 11 And, what I'd like to do after we have a little discussion 12 tonight, Judge, would be to set a date for a workshop where 13 we can clearly consider this and all implications, 14 ramifications, and the good things that come about as a 15 result of rainwater collection. 16 In your packet, I've put together a lot of 17 things that I've -- I've been able to glean, and the -- and 18 the program highlights that are presented to you tonight are 19 updated and taken from a seminar program which was enacted 20 by Hays County. I recently attended a workshop in San 21 Marcos put on by G.B.R.A. and L.C.R.A. in Hays County, 22 talking about rainwater harvesting and its benefits. But, 23 very quickly, the benefits of such a program to create a tax 24 -- a tax reduction -- property tax reduction, that's what 25 the program's all about. For any individual or property 59 1 owner who purchases a rainwater harvesting system of at 2 least 2,500 gallons or greater, installs it and utilizes 3 it -- and this would entitle that person to -- to have a 4 property tax exclusion, if you will, on the value of that 5 rainwater system. The benefits are free, high-quality water 6 use, reduces groundwater demand, saves possible water, 7 electricity, water softener expenses, reduces salt 8 discharges into the soil, limits runoff while reducing 9 stormwater, plus fire protection and, of course, peace of 10 mind. 11 The criteria would be Kerr County application 12 approval, either through the U.G.R.A. or Headwaters. I've 13 discussed this with both Headwaters' Cameron Cornett, and 14 I've discussed it with U.G.R.A. through the board member 15 who's out here right now, Janet Robinson, who's here, and I 16 think Janet has indicated her willingness to introduce the 17 companion project to the U.G.R.A. Board as well. Criteria 18 is set out; the 2,500-gallon minimum, an annual application 19 for approval -- and it's not something that goes on and on 20 and on. You've got to apply for it, 'cause what we want to 21 know is it not only have you installed it, but are you 22 continuing to use it? You got to have sunlight-restrictive 23 design and insect-proofing and so forth and so on. So, 24 that's the nature of the program. 25 With us tonight, in addition, are two of the 60 1 people who I've been with on many, many occasions, watched 2 their system work and watched them install it. I know it 3 works, and I'd like to introduce to the Court Sandy and 4 Ronald Pená, who have been here before on other issues. 5 Stand up, Sandy and Ronald. And, you're welcome to say 6 anything you'd like to say about it. But, I want to set a 7 workshop tonight and see if this is a program that Kerr 8 County would like to buy into. 9 MRS. PENÁ: You really ought to do it. It 10 makes a lot of sense from an economic standpoint, as well as 11 preserving the water in the aquifer and the river, and there 12 really is enough annual rainfall in Kerr County to make it 13 extremely feasible. But, the idea of financial incentive 14 will go a long way towards encouraging people to actually 15 put a system in place and use it. This is a marvelous idea, 16 and I'm very appreciative that Commissioner Williams took 17 this ball and ran with it. Thanks. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Also, a part of that 19 is -- is a secondary program called Linked Deposit Program 20 for rainwater collection systems. It's also something that 21 Hays County, I think, initiated and put into play. And, 22 very simply, what it is, it enables a property owner who 23 goes to a local bank to finance the system, the local bank 24 will agree to give him a break in the interest rate on the 25 loan. If Kerr County were to have such a program such as 61 1 that, we would put on deposit an amount equal to the amount 2 that the loan is -- it's not collateral in that sense -- and 3 the bank gets the benefit of our money working for the bank 4 and us as well, and the homeowner or the property owner gets 5 the benefit by reason of a reduced interest rate for the 6 purchase of this equipment. So, the Linked Deposit 7 Program -- State of Texas uses them, I believe, in some of 8 its programs, so it's nothing new to us in terms of its 9 availability. It's being used in the state right now. So, 10 I'd like to set a workshop, Judge, where we can get into 11 this deeper and have plenty of time to talk about it, 12 examine the merits and demerits, if any, and decide what we 13 want to do about it. 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any questions or comments 15 from the Commissioners Court? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The question I have is -- 17 this something I was unclear about. On the property tax 18 reduction, the value that's being reduced is the value of 19 the equipment, the rainwater harvesting equipment? 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It really becomes an 21 exclusion, not an exception. If you went to K.C.A.D. or 22 any -- any taxing entity, if they agreed to do this, and if 23 the value of your system is $10,000, it would never be 24 added, or would not be added to the value of the property. 25 It would be excluded from the value of your property every 62 1 year that you applied for that exclusion. Only the value of 2 the system for installation and operation, the cost to you 3 to purchase and install it, and you have to re-up that every 4 year. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess -- I mean, I -- 6 that's the way I read it. And my question is, when I watch 7 them do appraisals -- and I just -- it's fresh in my mind 8 'cause they happened to be out appraising my house the other 9 day. I didn't see that they wrote any details down about 10 anything like that. They have no idea where my water comes 11 from, and they didn't -- they don't check it. My water 12 comes from the creek, you know, and I didn't get a reduction 13 for not having a well. They didn't ask if I had a well. 14 You know, they didn't -- you know, they just don't ask any 15 questions, so I just don't know that it's a real 16 dollar-saving that -- to put before the public, because I 17 don't think they're doing that right now. 18 I had to argue with them whether air 19 conditioning in a hunting cabin was a central unit or a 20 window unit. You know, and then he said, "Oh, it doesn't 21 make any difference, anyway." Well, I mean, to me, if they 22 don't make any difference about that, then they don't make a 23 difference about this, and I just think it's kind of a false 24 thing to put before the public that they're going to get 25 some kind of a tax benefit when I seriously question that 63 1 they are, based on the way they do appraisals. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I appreciate the 3 comments. I can't comment beyond that, except that K.C.A.D. 4 has been given a copy of all this. They said it looked 5 pretty good, and they said they would be at the workshop. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it's a -- it's a 7 good -- you know, I'm in favor of this. I think it's -- 8 this type of conservation measure. I think there's lots of 9 others that we can look at. I mean, conservation is one of 10 the biggest or best tools we have for water problems, if 11 there are problems. In some areas there are problems. And, 12 I'm in favor of this type of approach, but I just want to 13 make sure it's something real, as opposed to something just 14 put out there for the press and everyone feels good for 15 about a day, and nothing really happens. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I agree. 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: Do you have any statistics, 18 Commissioner, on how many collection systems are in Hays 19 County or anything? 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I asked the question 21 at the workshop here a couple weeks ago, and -- and the 22 Commissioner who introduced this and pushed it through Hays 23 County said they don't have a complete year of statistics 24 because they introduced it at the tail end of a budget 25 year -- or a calendar year, and they're now into what would 64 1 be the first full year of operation under it. So, he had no 2 statistics, except to say people have come forward and have 3 said they want to do it and apply for it. The numbers, I 4 don't know. 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any other questions or 6 comments? 7 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Do you have a date in 8 mind? 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I was hoping for 10 maybe after our first -- the afternoon of ours first session 11 in June. That would be the 11th, I believe. 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: I might suggest we push it 13 back to the 25th. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: All right. 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: For the reason that I think 16 it might be a little difficult to coordinate everything 17 within two weeks. That's up to you. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, that's okay. 19 Just so we get it. 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: The project really is 21 worthwhile. I think everyone knows that the Lowe's -- the 22 people who are building the new Lowe's Home Improvement 23 Center have committed to a rainwater collection system. 24 And, I believe the school district -- Jonathan, haven't they 25 committed to looking at a rainwater collection system at the 65 1 high school? 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They said they're looking 3 at it. I don't know that it goes beyond that. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: While we haven't 5 moved that far ahead in our own plans for the Hill Country 6 Youth Exhibit Center, I think we would be remiss if we 7 didn't do the same thing. 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: Anyway, I think it's an idea 9 that's catching hold and, you know, a little publicity and 10 push may encourage people to take advantage of the program. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, I'll make a 12 motion, Judge, that we have a workshop on this on June 25th 13 at 2 p.m. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion by Commissioner 16 Williams, second by Commissioner Letz, that the Court 17 schedule a workshop on the Rainwater Collection Incentive 18 Program for Monday, June 25th, Year 2001, at 2 o'clock p.m. 19 here in the Kerr County Courthouse courtroom. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: My only comment would be, 21 would you object if we -- if we had the flexibility to 22 expand it a little bit, do some other conservation measures 23 as well? 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Absolutely not, 25 Jonathan. 66 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If we're going to do it, 2 we ought to talk about whatever's on the horizon in 3 conservation. And, I am in favor of -- I mean, one of the 4 things we -- incentives we have is taxing or tax credit or 5 exemption or reduction. I think if there is some 6 encouragement, we can do it that way. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'd welcome that. 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: I take that as an amendment 9 to your motion, that it's for rainwater collection and other 10 conservation tax incentives? 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes. 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. Any further questions 13 or comments? If not, all in favor, raise your right hand. 14 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 16 (No response.) 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Judge. 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you. Okay, we'll go 20 back to Item Number 9. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Sandy. 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: Consider and discuss changing 23 the part-time receptionist position to full-time 24 receptionist. Sheriff. 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: What this is doing, I 67 1 know we changed and put a full-time receptionist when I 2 changed over, and we went to the administrative secretary in 3 the jail. We have several -- or did have several part-time 4 positions in the Sheriff's Department which I'm gradually 5 doing away with. One ended up being hired as a maintenance 6 person with the County Maintenance Department, Glenn 7 Holekamp. We didn't replace that. I just don't replace the 8 part-time ones. I'll still have two part-time people in the 9 jail itself, but I'm doing away with a lot of the part-time, 10 because we can just get so much more out of the full-time 11 position and not have any employees change everything. And, 12 this is for the receptionist that's up front. 13 You have the job description where this 14 position was there before, with the Nash -- I think we 15 attached a job description to it. The funding -- according 16 to Tommy's office, the funding is already there. It's still 17 left over from some of the other part-time that we're not 18 replacing. FICA, insurance, everything is all still in 19 there. We don't have to make any kind of budget additions 20 or change anything to fund this as a full-time position. 21 The reason I'm doing it now, the one part-time receptionist 22 I have now is leaving the department in a couple weeks. So, 23 without having to go in and -- and either cut somebody's 24 position, I think this is the time to actually upgrade and 25 make this change. 68 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: Questions or comments? 2 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I make a motion that 3 we approve as submitted. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 6 Griffin, seconded by Commissioner Baldwin, that the Court 7 approve changing the part-time receptionist position at the 8 Sheriff's Department to a full-time receptionist position, 9 and adopt the job description which is part of our board 10 book. Any questions or comments? If not, all in favor, 11 raise your right hand. 12 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 14 (No response.) 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Thank you. 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you, Sheriff. I think 18 this is an excellent time for to us take a little break. 19 Let's take 15 minutes, return promptly at 10 minutes after 20 8:00. 21 (Recess taken from 7:55 p.m. to 8:10 p.m.) 22 - - - - - - - - - - 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: All right. It's 10 after 24 8:00. Let's reconvene this regular special session of the 25 Kerr County Commissioners Court. Next item for discussion 69 1 and consideration is Item Number 13, consider and discuss 2 approving rules and regulations for parks and recreation 3 areas and set public hearing on same. Before anyone asks, I 4 will point out that Item Number 10 has been pulled by the 5 Sheriff, so we don't have that on our agenda for this 6 evening. So, Commissioner Letz, park rules. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Eleven? What happened to 8 that? 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: Oh, 11, I'm sorry. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We can do 11, it 11 won't take but a minute. 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. We'll back off and do 13 11, consider and discuss utilizing services of University of 14 Texas at San Antonio in developing a funding strategy for 15 Hill Country Youth Exhibition Center Master Plan. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Once again, on one of 17 my AACOG excursions, I met a gentleman who heads up the 18 University of Texas San Antonio Center for Economic 19 Development, and it is the purpose of their organization or 20 operation to assist governmental bodies and others in 21 developing funding strategies for things that make sense 22 that have economic development at the heart of the 23 initiative. Glenn Holekamp and I, one afternoon, met with 24 Ernest Gerlach here. He came down to take a look at our 25 Hill Country Youth Exhibit Center. We had a long discussion 70 1 with him, and I think it might be -- and subsequently, also, 2 I've spoken with Commissioner Letz about this, and I think 3 it would be beneficial if the Court could listen to 4 Mr. Gerlach and determine whether or not they can be of 5 service to us. I don't believe there's any charge for their 6 services in helping us develop a funding strategy for the 7 Hill Country Youth Exhibit Center expansion/renovation, and 8 so the purpose of this is to put it in front of you, and if 9 you are in agreement with my premise to set a workshop date, 10 in this case I would suggest the 11th. I think 11 Mr. Gerlach's schedule would enable him to be with us the 12 afternoon of the 11th. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm in favor. 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any other questions or 15 comments? 16 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: It looks like there is 17 a fee, but it's on a cost recovery basis, probably just 18 their travel. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, I think that's 20 the case, Commissioner. I would move that we set a workshop 21 at 2 p.m. on June 11th. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion by Commissioner 24 Williams, second by Commissioner Baldwin, that the Court set 25 a workshop for 2 o'clock p.m. on June 11th, Year 2001, here 71 1 in the Kerr County Commissioners' Courtroom for the purpose 2 of hearing the presentation from Dr. Ernest J. Gerlach from 3 U.T.S.A. at San Antonio Center for Economic Development 4 regarding funding strategy for Hill Country Youth Exhibit 5 Center Master Plan. Any further questions or comments? If 6 not, all in favor, raise your right hand. 7 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 9 (No response.) 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Now we'll go 11 to the parks rules, Item 13. Commissioner Letz. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, after sitting idle 13 for some time, I think at the prompting of the Judge and 14 several others, I brought this back to the Court. Last time 15 we got -- I couldn't remember what we got twisted off on, 16 but I know we got twisted off and couldn't get untwisted. I 17 think it was over fireworks, as I recall. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I've got my notes. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, I went through it and 20 I decided, let's try to make it as simple as possible and at 21 least get something on the books to start with, and then, if 22 we need to strengthen them in certain areas, strengthen them 23 later. And, I tried to do that. If I look at it now, I 24 even see some things we could even delete more out of it, 25 but we might just go through it briefly, and then open up 72 1 for any comments from the Court. 2 General Authority is just, you know, defining 3 what it's going to be, and we need to decide if it's going 4 to be for all parks or just Flat Rock. You know, it's 5 all -- we've gone back and forth as a Court on that. If it 6 is -- whatever the area is, I think we need to have a plat 7 attached with a description of what the park is for all the 8 parks, whichever is going to be included in this. 9 Section 2 is Approval and Scheduling of 10 Events. We've had in the -- the previous drafts that we 11 would delegate scheduling events to the Maintenance 12 Department or Facilities Maintenance Department, if someone 13 wanted to hold a chili cook-off or something like that, or 14 any kind of an event. And, I -- but the other versions that 15 I've looked at had a bunch -- had a bunch of other verbiage 16 about -- you know, it referred to another document, 17 basically, and that other document has never been prepared, 18 so I think we shouldn't really have -- I don't know what to 19 do with this right now. If we're going to have -- just 20 leave it as it is, it says here with one sentence, "All 21 events must be approved and scheduled in advance by making 22 application..." Or do we need to develop actual guidelines, 23 or just leave it out altogether? I'm almost of the opinion 24 now it's probably better to just delete Section 2 entirely 25 and just address it later. 73 1 Anyway, just to go through real quick on the 2 closing hours, I changed the time. We had it from -- I 3 believe in the last draft, from 10:00 -- or 7:30 to 10:00, 4 and that seemed too -- too late in the morning to open, and 5 it was closing a little bit too early, during the summer 6 months especially. So, I don't have real heartburn one way 7 or the other, but I changed it to 6 a.m. to 10 p.m., but 8 that excludes the boat ramp. Boat ramp's open. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Eleven. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean 11:00 is what I 11 have, excuse me. Section 4, basically, it says that there 12 will be no overnight staying or camping, portable buildings, 13 things of that nature in the park, and no activities between 14 11 p.m. and 6 a.m., with the exception being possibly 15 through the Facilities and Use Department, if there is any 16 kind of a chili cook-off. That's the only event that I'm 17 aware that of that has been down in the park when there was 18 overnight camping. 19 Section 5 refers to vehicles, and I almost 20 think, after reading this again, we can almost delete that 21 entire thing and do a separate court order and put a speed 22 limit sign in there. Rather than have it part of the park 23 rules, just have it as a set court order, set the speed 24 limit, name the roads, and you have the rules. If you get 25 off the roads and destroy something, you're destroying 74 1 public property and you're under the Penal Code, anyway. A 2 lot of the problems that we had earlier with the Sheriff's 3 Department or with Rusty, really, was he didn't know how to 4 enforce them. He didn't know what the provisions -- you 5 know, and his recommendation to me was, wherever possible, 6 just go by state law. If you're trespassing, I mean, after 7 park hours, if you're in there, you're trespassing. If 8 you're destroying something, it's destruction of public 9 property, so there's no reason to have all kinds of special 10 rules. So, I really think we should probably delete the 11 entire Section 5, just put speed limit signs up. 12 Section 6 is Miscellaneous Provisions. One 13 is about you can't destroy -- or I guess pull plants, 14 mutilate trees, things of that nature, and that may actually 15 come under the destruction of public property as well. This 16 language came out of the City's parks rules, and it's -- 17 they tried to list every kind of vegetation we have in the 18 county, I think. I didn't want us to destroy it; I left it 19 in here for the time being, but, you know, I really almost 20 think let's take it out again. I think it's easier to just 21 go under destruction of public property. 22 The second item on there on Page 3, build 23 ground fires except in designated fire pits, I think we 24 probably do need that. We need something about fire in the 25 park. We have -- you know, that would need to stay there. 75 1 Section 3, I think we can delete. Section 4, noise levels, 2 I think it -- again if you're a public nuisance, you're a 3 public nuisance. Let the Sheriff's Department have the same 4 criteria they have under any other situation if you're 5 making a disturbance. I think Section -- Number 5, we would 6 probably need to leave, regarding not having any commercial 7 venture out there in the park. That's something that's a 8 little bit unique situation to a county park. 9 Littering. I really think we're probably 10 covered under state law on littering. We could probably 11 delete that. We do need to get some -- in the budget 12 process, get some more trash cans out there. Section 8, 13 Pets. We already have a, you know -- no, we don't have a 14 leash law in the county. We have a tag law. We probably do 15 need to leave that about keeping -- 16 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Right. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- animals on a leash. 18 Of the other ones, the remaining -- Section 9, 10, 11 are 19 just some legal ideas. So, pretty much, if we went through 20 it and did it -- did it that way, it would be a much 21 smaller -- basically a one-and-a-half page document that 22 really is going to piggyback state law as much as possible, 23 and not -- not try to create new law that gets us into lots 24 of difficulty from an enforcement standpoint. So, that's 25 kind of where I've come down on it. 76 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree with 2 everything you've said. 3 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yeah. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You said something 5 about naming the road in the park and putting a speed limit 6 on it. I mean, I -- that's -- 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Since it's Commissioner 8 Williams' precinct, that's his responsibility. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Letz Boulevard. I'm 10 going to push for that one. I'm lobbying for that one. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We're going to have 12 the Sheriff out there to maintain law and order. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Absolutely. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I guess if I have one 15 problem with it, I don't -- I don't disagree with the need 16 to keep it as simple as possible, but I've had so many 17 people, and we've listened to them here in court on more 18 than one occasion, talk about the noise and the problems 19 that are associated with not only the park, but the dams 20 that we own in Kerr County, as well. And, we've talked 21 about this before. We've talked about the potential of 22 including -- including dams along with parks and recreation 23 areas, and in all three instances, we'd have a dam 24 associated with a park. And, therein lines some problems. 25 I'm not trying to get us off into the fireworks thing again, 77 1 'cause sooner or later we'll get there, but not tonight, but 2 I would like to see incorporated into our language -- you 3 know, taking Section 3, for example, "All county parks, 4 dams, and recreation areas..." I'd like to see dams 5 included in that. 6 On Page 2, under -- up at the top, Jonathan, 7 we're talking about, It shall be unlawful, within any 8 county-owned park, dam, again, or recreation area. Number 3 9 needs some -- some help. Allow any equipment or activity. 10 I think it should be -- I think the intent is to allow the 11 use of any equipment or activity between the hours of 11:00 12 and 6 a.m. The sentence is -- 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I agree. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Needs a little -- 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't even know that we 16 need that sentence, really. I mean, I think we could reword 17 that, basically, to say there will be no overnight -- I'll 18 get with Travis. We just don't want anyone spending the 19 night in the park, so whatever language we need to say that 20 -- to accomplish that, we can insert under that Section 4. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: One other comment, 22 and I guess -- I think we need -- all of us need to think 23 about it in terms of Section 3, where we talk about approval 24 and scheduling of events. You've come, you know, a long way 25 from the first draft, where we had a lot of language saying 78 1 what you could and couldn't do, how you can do it and all 2 that kind of stuff, and the policy use manual, which to 3 date, that I'm aware of, is not yet done. And now we're 4 saying all events must be approved and scheduled in advance 5 by making application to the Facility Use department. Are 6 we talking about a family picnic? 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Only reason I left it -- 8 even that much in there is so I wouldn't forget to talk 9 about it. I'd delete the entire section, I think, at this 10 point until we come up with a use plan or if a development 11 becomes a problem. I mean, if somebody wants to get out 12 there and have, you know, a small family get-together, I 13 don't know why they have to get a permit. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's my point. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And they're not going to 16 spend the night. If they want to spend the night, then they 17 need to come and get special permission. We already have it 18 illegal to spend the night, so they'd have to come. I just 19 think we could almost -- I can't think of the -- I think 20 we're anticipating a problem that may never be a problem. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, that's the 22 reason I raise it, because, you know, families do picnics on 23 the spur of the moment; they go out, stake out a plot of 24 ground and table, and away they go. And, putting them 25 through a hoop that may not be necessary is what I'm talking 79 1 about. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree with that. 3 But I would think, though, that the chili cook-off thing 4 needs to be a scheduled event. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It does, yes. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It needs to be on the 7 books. If I show up with my family for a family reunion, 8 I'm going to fill your park up, and you're not going to have 9 room for them, and they need to be scheduled in. 10 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Aren't most -- most 11 that I've seen has to do with a number of people involved. 12 Organized events with more than 100 people, or events -- 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Maybe talking about 14 organized events of greater than -- 15 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Some number. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: Fifty. 18 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Fifty, maybe. Just -- 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 20 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That's a pretty pro 21 forma deal. But, I mean, it's just -- 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: There aren't many family or 23 spontaneous groups that exceed 50. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Say organized events of 25 50 or more must be approved and scheduled by Facilities and 80 1 Maintenance. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That will work. And 3 I would like to move that we do the dams -- include dams in 4 our consideration. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Would you -- we could -- 6 as I see it, we can do it two ways. And really, to me, we 7 should probably even delete "and recreation areas," just 8 call them parks. If we define parks as including the dam, 9 then it's covered. Just say -- 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, just so it's in 11 the definition somehow. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: As long as it's in the 13 plat, basically, that we're -- the park -- this is the park, 14 includes the dam. It includes the dam. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You're really hung up 18 on this dam thing. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm damn well hung up 20 on it. 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any other questions or 22 comments? When do you want your public hearing, Jonathan? 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Let me shorten it and 24 bring it back June 11th, and set the hearing at that time. 25 Obviously, it will have a change again. I really wanted to 81 1 get it on the agenda before I did too much so we knew where 2 to go, and it seems that everyone's finally beaten down; 3 we're going in the same direction. We're saying as little 4 as possible. 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: I think it's a good effort. 6 Let's go on to Item Number 14, which is consider and discuss 7 modification to the Kerr County Subdivision Rules and 8 Regulations and set a public hearing on the same. Once 9 again, Commissioner Letz. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: On this one, I think it's 11 pretty self-explanatory from the backup. We had, you know, 12 some basically typographical errors, oversights or things of 13 that nature in the Subdivision Rules, and this is just an 14 effort to go through and correct those mistakes. 15 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Mm-hmm. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: There's nothing of real 17 consequence. We can go through them. There is an order 18 there in the packet. I received a comment from someone -- a 19 member of the public that said we talked about Registered 20 Professional Engineers, but didn't define it, however, and 21 so I just defined it as an engineer licensed in the state of 22 Texas. Pretty simple to me. Second page, on the top of the 23 page, typo. We said Page 9; should have said Page 10. Next 24 page, typo. It says Section 5.06; it should read 5.05. 25 Then at the bottom of that same page, it refers to the storm 82 1 drainage plan, and we don't have that. We added that in 2 another edition. We just have a drainage plan. Storm water 3 plan is not even addressed in Subdivision Rules; it's a 4 different entity. So, anyway, I changed that language. 5 Next page -- yeah. This one, we're adding -- 6 we left off out of the Local Government Code Paragraph F, 7 which says the Commissioners Court is not required to give 8 notice by mail under Subsection C if the plat revision only 9 combines tracts. That's getting our rules in line with what 10 we intended. And then we just changed the lettering of the 11 next item. On Page -- Section 7, Page 29, there's three 12 typos, and then there's a -- it refers to Appendix G, which 13 doesn't make any sense, so we just deleted the reference to 14 Appendix G there. Next page is a spelling error, typo. 15 Next one is under Paragraph 8, County Clerk's Recording 16 Acknowledgement. It didn't make a lot of sense, and I think 17 we just -- I don't know, I think somewhere we got a line 18 wrong. Do you see how I changed it? Did you look at the 19 language? Didn't change anything, just -- we got some 20 blanks backwards or out of order or something, and we 21 actually read it and it didn't make a lot of sense, to me, 22 so I -- 23 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: It does now. 24 MS. LAVENDER: Just the dates. 25 MS. PIEPER: Yeah, just the dates. 83 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And then the next page 2 is -- I'm pretty sure this is Appendix G. It wasn't labeled 3 such, but I'm pretty sure that's what it was supposed to be, 4 so I labeled that as Appendix G. And, those are the changes 5 I made. I'm really not -- I put on the agenda item to set a 6 public hearing. I don't know if we need to or not. These 7 are really just minor changes. We're not changing anything 8 conceptually, but just so if we needed to -- Travis is 9 saying we don't need a public hearing on it just for these 10 changes. 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: Probably what we need to do, 12 then, is bring it back, clean up -- clean it up for our 13 June 11th meeting, and we can just put it on for action. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. We'll just make 15 all these changes, incorporate the new pages that can be 16 inserted in all the books. 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All right. 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: Very good. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And, if there's anything 21 else -- at one point, I think Commissioner Baldwin had some 22 questions about some of our water language, about he thought 23 that it wasn't real clear. I read it. To me, it was clear 24 again, so if he wants to take a stab at modifying it or 25 getting with me, you know, we can bring that up at the next 84 1 meeting as well. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: All right. 3 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: He waited long enough 4 where he forgot. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, I didn't, either. 6 We're going to put it in there with dams. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There you go. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: See if I can tie it to 9 dams; we're not going to forget it. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Or fireworks. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Fireworks. 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay, very good. Let's jump 13 to Number 16, which will be very brief, and we'll come back 14 to 15, which may be a little more lengthy. Item Number 16 15 is consider and discuss setting a public meeting for 16 2 o'clock p.m. on June 12, 2001, and a public hearing for 17 10 o'clock a.m. on June 25, Year 2001, to finalize the 18 adoption of the Closed Landfill Inventory for Kerr County. 19 This is a regional initiative that's being forced on us by 20 AACOG. They have informed us that they're ready to pursue 21 adoption of the Closed Landfill Inventory. In order to do 22 that, they are suggesting we have a public meeting to gather 23 any additional input that may have been missed, and then 24 have the required public hearing on the dates that are 25 outlined in the materials. Does anyone have any questions 85 1 or comments? 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You want a court order 3 to do all that? 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: Just an order setting a 5 public meeting and the public hearing. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So moved. 7 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Second. 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 9 Baldwin, seconded by Commissioner Griffin, that the Court 10 set a public meeting for 2 o'clock p.m. on June 12, Year 11 2001, and a public hearing for 10 o'clock a.m. on June 25, 12 Year 2001, to -- regarding adoption of Closed Landfill 13 Inventory for Kerr County. Any further questions or 14 comments? If not, all in favor, raise your right hand. 15 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 17 (No response.) 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Let's 19 return, then, to Item Number 15. Item Number 15 is to 20 consider and discuss authorizing the negotiations for the 21 joint acquisition and operation of Kerrville-Schreiner State 22 Park with City of Kerrville. As you all may recall, I think 23 early in the year 2000, we received a letter from the State 24 Parks and Wildlife Department, whereby they explained to us 25 that as a result of some legislation out of the 1999 86 1 Legislature, Parks and Wildlife Department was mandated to 2 offer local parks to local governments who may or may not 3 have an interest in taking operation of those. We looked at 4 that opportunity in conjunction with the City. I know 5 Commissioner Letz was involved. We all were involved to a 6 certain extent, and a tentative decision was reached by 7 approximately last August/September that this was -- this 8 was an initiative that we did not wish to pursue at that 9 time. 10 The City of Kerrville has revisited the issue 11 and has now apparently made the decision that they want to 12 look more closely at acquiring Kerrville-Schreiner State 13 Park. They have come back to us and said, Do you all want 14 to participate, without giving us any parameters as to how 15 our participation would be structured. Included in the -- 16 in the materials for tonight's meeting is a summary that was 17 prepared by the City of Kerrville staff regarding their 18 economic analysis of the operation of the state park, at 19 least how it would be operated under the auspices of the 20 City. The agenda item tonight is designed to encourage 21 discussion by the Court as to whether or not this is an 22 opportunity that we want to be involved in, and if so, what 23 kind of marching orders do you want to give to the -- 24 whomever we designate to go forward and work on this with 25 the City? 87 1 So, with that in mind, we have had one 2 individual from the audience who wishes to address us. I 3 think I'll call her up now, and then we'll listen to her and 4 then open it to discussion. Barbara Lowenthal, will you 5 come forward, ma'am? 6 MS. LOWENTHAL: Judge and Commissioners, I'm 7 Barbara Lowenthal, and my husband and I are residing in 8 Commissioner Baldwin's precinct at 696 Rimrock. And, I'm 9 here to urge you not to support taking over 10 Kerrville-Schreiner State Park, and I have three reasons 11 that I'd like to present to you. First of all, keeping the 12 park in the state system will allow us to continue to do 13 what we are doing right now. We're receiving all of the 14 economic benefits from that park. We have the use of the 15 park, we do not have any liabilities, we do not have any 16 operating costs. Why would we take on that burden, as 17 taxpayers? Secondly, the moneys that you would need to set 18 aside to operate that park you could then use to purchase 19 land for additional parks or hike and bike trails, so it 20 would be a win-win situation where we could keep that 21 magnificent park out there for our use without our 22 responsibility, but we could add more parkland, hike and 23 bike trails to our community. Thirdly, the E.I.C. evidently 24 is willing to offer funding for that park. Again, why 25 couldn't they take that funding and work with you to 88 1 purchase additional county land along the river or up on 2 some of the hills or whatever for additional parks and hike 3 and bike trails? For those reasons, I urge you not to 4 approve going forward with the takeover of the park. Thank 5 you. 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you, Ms. Lowenthal. 7 Any questions or comments from the Commissioners Court? 8 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I understand, if we 9 can believe what we read -- and sometimes we can and 10 sometimes we question it -- but that the City intends to 11 annex the park; is that correct? 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: A portion of the park is 13 already within the city limits. I believe the river side is 14 already within the city limits, so they would probably go 15 ahead and -- they'd have to go ahead and annex it in order 16 to operate it as a city park. 17 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Well, particularly in 18 that case -- and I will vote against entering into this deal 19 for the same reasons I voted against it last time, but -- 20 but I don't understand what problem we would be solving. 21 And, I'm -- I'm with the lady in the audience -- I'm sorry, 22 I forgot your name already -- but if we don't do anything, 23 the State continues to operate the park. We've been told 24 that several times. And, why do we want to buy into a -- 25 what is today a money-losing operation with its incumbent 89 1 liability, rather than letting the State just go ahead and 2 do their job and maintain the park, operate it as they have 3 in the past? I -- I don't see a problem looking for a 4 solution here, and so I just don't understand why we would 5 want to do that. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm in agreement with 7 the good Commissioner, so I'll give the far side a shot at 8 the -- 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm not for it; I'm 10 just going to surprise you. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I am shocked. We're 12 going to build a new dam. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: This is going to 14 shock you, Commissioner. I am not in favor of it, and I 15 think Mrs. Lowenthal's comments are well-taken. I've heard 16 a lot of discussion coming out of E.I.C. about the relative 17 merits of taking over a park that we already have the 18 benefit of and creating another Zilker Park on the 19 Guadalupe. Well, I got to tell you, I don't want a Zilker 20 Park on the Guadalupe. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Neither do I. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't care how 23 grandiose it might be, but what really concerns me is how we 24 can equate the operation -- the acquisition and operation of 25 this park to economic development and economic impact. It's 90 1 not there. Whatever economic impact that park generates for 2 Kerrville and Kerr County is already here, and I'm here to 3 tell you that's a loaf of bread and a quart of milk 4 syndrome. They come to town with their campers full, and if 5 they buy anything at all, they buy a loaf of bread and a 6 quart of milk and a dozen eggs, and then they get a tank 7 full of gas and leave town. They don't shop in our shops, 8 they don't eat in our restaurants, and they don't do 9 anything in here, so whatever benefit we have in Kerr 10 County, it's already here. So, there's nothing there. And 11 if we're going to spend E.I.C. money on economic 12 improvement, I suggest to you we get a bigger bang for our 13 buck, and half of those bucks that go to E.I.C. come from 14 people who live in the county and shop in this trade center. 15 We'd get a larger bang for our buck if they'd come and work 16 with us to expand the Hill Country Youth Exhibit Center and 17 make it truly an economic generator for Kerr County. And, 18 that's where I'm coming from. I don't see us taking on 19 $70,000 worth of annual losses and putting a million and a 20 half in infrastructure for a park we get no benefit out of. 21 That surprise you? 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm speechless. 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: Commissioner Letz? Did you 24 want to weigh in? 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I think pretty 91 1 much, I mean, I'm in agreement. I mean, and I said the same 2 thing whenever it was we first met. I mean, and it's 3 basically -- the only thing -- there is a little bit of a 4 benefit to this happening, to get it out on the table, 5 because there is some -- and I'm not in favor of doing it, 6 but the benefit is there's money out there for basic 7 improvements out there which make it a nicer park, and those 8 moneys are kind of tied to someone else taking it over other 9 than the state. It's a one-time deal. I don't think the 10 park would ever operate in the black. It's going to 11 continue to be a -- you know, in the red. And, I don't -- I 12 think that if the County's going to get into the park 13 business in a bigger way, I would rather do something like 14 Mrs. Lowenthal -- Lowenthal? -- Lowenthal said. Look 15 elsewhere for some land that's not currently a park. 16 There's -- there is a need in the western 17 part of the county and the eastern part of the county for 18 additional parkland, and there is two very small parks, one 19 out west and one in the east, that could be expanded. And, 20 you know, if someone -- if that was, you know, the direction 21 we wanted to take -- I'm not saying that's a priority of 22 mine, but I just don't see the reason to try to get in on 23 this deal. I do think that there is -- you know, if the 24 City really wants to do it, I will do nothing to stop them 25 from doing it. They may -- you know, that's their business. 92 1 I think that there is an opportunity -- if the City does do 2 it, there is an opportunity to improve the -- or through 3 interlocal agreement, probably improve Flat Rock Park, which 4 is our park. We don't really have a parks department, and 5 it's pretty difficult for us to form one for that size park, 6 but it -- you know, it may work easier, if they were 7 operating the park on the side of the river, for to us enter 8 an interlocal agreement on our park across the river, or 9 selling it to them or giving it to them or whatever. 10 I mean, the purpose, in my mind, is that we 11 need to keep these parklands as parks. And, who operates 12 them -- actually, my opinion is, if someone else operates 13 them, all the better from the County standpoint. But, we 14 just need to make sure, and that's why -- you know, the 15 State is not saying they're closing the park. If they said 16 they were going to close or sell the park, then I'd have a 17 very different view, but that's not on the table. On the 18 table is whether you want to take it over or want them to 19 keep it. And, you know, I don't want to. If the City wants 20 to, that's fine too. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, I'd like to 22 clarify your opening statement. You said that we'd all been 23 involved in this one time or another, and this is my 24 second -- second time I've even had discussions about it. 25 The first time was two weeks ago when I had lunch with the 93 1 City Manager. But, I had not been involved in any of this. 2 But, you know, I have questions, and my question to the City 3 Manager is, why? I mean, what -- what kind of problem are 4 we fixing here? And we're not fixing one. And in the 5 City's notes here, they talk about TexDOT providing road 6 maintenance. Would that continue? 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't think so. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Absolutely not. 9 They'd be -- that would probably be a direct cost to the 10 citizens of Kerr County with the Road and Bridge Department 11 taking care of it. Volunteers contribute between $8,000 and 12 $10,000 annually to the operation and maintenance of the 13 park. Will that continue if it became a city/county park? 14 There's the leaders of that organization. 15 AUDIENCE: No. 16 MS. LOWENTHAL: They haven't voted on that, 17 but there's a sense. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm kind of hearing 19 the rumbles out there. And, the thing is, Parks and 20 Wildlife -- the State of Texas Parks and Wildlife, they're 21 in that business. They do a pretty doggone good job of what 22 they do. 23 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Which, by the way, the 24 money that you're talking about that's available for 25 infrastructure improvements, of the total pot for the 94 1 state -- 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Nine hundred left. 3 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: -- there's $900,000 4 left, statewide. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 6 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: So you're talking 7 peanuts by the time -- 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: In the notes here, it 9 shows there is available in funding, according to the state 10 regional office, $900,000. There ain't that much available 11 to Kerrville, Texas, I can tell you. But, it's built in 12 these numbers, so I kind of -- I'm not questioning the City, 13 but I don't like that kind of -- to see those kind of 14 things. We're not getting 900 here. 15 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I think we have a 16 sense of the Court. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just one quick note, 18 something that Jonathan mentioned, and it is something that 19 we had mentioned before. And, I've talked to the City and 20 had several one-on-ones with people. I think you and I had 21 a meeting with one of the persons about an interlocal 22 service agreement between the County and the City, 23 particularly for parks maintenance, or we could put our 24 parks in, in terms of maintenance. And, to me, that -- that 25 could provide some economies of scale. Could. I'm not 95 1 sure. But, even in -- on this particular proposal, it 2 doesn't contemplate that. And they're talking about adding 3 about $275,000 a year to their Parks Department's budget, 4 and their Parks Department -- according to some folks who 5 have talked to me who are on the Parks Commission, they got 6 more on their plate than they can say grace over now, much 7 less being able to handle our parks or the state park. So, 8 anyhow, just a footnote. 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: Anyone else? I say we take 10 it as a sense of the Court that the Court is not -- while we 11 appreciate the offer, we're going to respectfully decline at 12 this time to involve ourselves in discussions over the 13 acquisition of Kerrville-Schreiner State Park. I will so 14 inform the mayor. Okay. All right, the last item on the 15 agenda is an Executive Session, so all those individuals who 16 are not part of that discussion are excused. Thank you all 17 for coming this evening. 18 (Discussion off the record.) 19 (The open session was closed at 8:45 p.m., and an Executive Session was held, the 20 transcript of which is contained in a separate document.) 21 - - - - - - - - - - 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: This concludes the Executive 23 Session of the Kerr county Commissioners Court. We'll now 24 return to open session. Are there any action items that -- 25 items that need to be taken action on as a result of the 96 1 Executive Session? 2 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Commissioner Baldwin, 3 are you going to make a motion or am I going to make it? 4 I'd like to make a motion that we authorize the County 5 Attorney's office to negotiate with landowners for potential 6 acquisition of land, and that you can use whatever member -- 7 that the County Attorney's office can use appropriate 8 Commissioners to -- as you see fit to help in that process. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion by Commissioner 11 Griffin, second by Commissioner Williams, that the Court 12 authorize the County Attorney's office to enter into 13 negotiations for real estate acquisition and utilize the 14 services of such member of the Commissioners Court as the 15 County Attorney's office deems necessary. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Should we say where or 17 just leave it open? 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: Leave it open. Any further 19 questions or comments? If not, all in favor, raise your 20 right hand. 21 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 23 (No response.) 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Okay. If 25 there's no other business to come before the Court, we stand 97 1 adjourned. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 3 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Third. 4 (Commissioners Court adjourned at 8:56 p.m.) 5 - - - - - - - - - - 6 7 8 9 STATE OF TEXAS | 10 COUNTY OF KERR | 11 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 12 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as 13 County Clerk of the Commissioners Court of Kerr County, 14 Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth. 15 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 1st day of June, 2001. 16 17 18 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 19 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 20 Certified Shorthand Reporter 21 22 23 24 25