1 2 3 4 5 6 7 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 8 Special Session 9 Monday, July 23, 2001 10 4:00 p.m. 11 Commissioners' Courtroom 12 Kerr County Courthouse 13 Kerrville, Texas 14 15 16 17 18 PUBLIC HEARING - REDISTRICTING PROPOSALS 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: FREDERICK L. HENNEKE, Kerr County Judge H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 24 WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 25 LARRY GRIFFIN, Commissioner Pct. 4 2 1 I N D E X July 23, 2001 2 PAGE 3 2.13 PUBLIC HEARING - proposed redistricting plans for Commissioners' precincts in Kerr County 3 4 2.14 Adoption of redistricting plan for Commissioners' 5 precincts in Kerr County and authorization of submission of plan and supporting information to 6 U.S. Department of Justice for Voting Rights Act preclearance 57 7 --- Adjourned 60 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 3 1 On Monday, July 23, 2001, at 4 o'clock p.m., a special 2 meeting of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in 3 the Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, 4 Kerrville, Texas, and the following proceedings were had in 5 open court: 6 P R O C E E D I N G S 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: Good afternoon, ladies and 8 gentlemen. We'll call to order this public hearing on the 9 issue of redistricting for the Kerr County Commissioners 10 precincts based on the 2000 census. 11 (The regular Commissioners Court meeting was closed at 4:00 p.m., and a public hearing 12 was held in open court, as follows:) 13 P U B L I C H E A R I N G 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: I want to thank all of you 15 for coming up. I'm just overwhelmed by the interest and the 16 support. It's an important issue, and I want to thank each 17 and every one of you for coming out to express your opinions 18 on this issue. Due to the crowd, we're going to adjourn 19 this public hearing down to the County Court at Law 20 courtroom, which is in this direction to my right, to your 21 left, which has a better venue for an audience of this size, 22 better site lines, as well as more -- more seats and more 23 comfortable seats. So, if y'all will just orderly rise and 24 move down the hall, we'll start up there as quickly as 25 possible. 4 1 (Relocated to County Court at Law courtroom.) 2 - - - - - - - - - - 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you all again for your 4 cooperation and skill in relocating. You're getting to be 5 good at this; it's the second time we've had to relocate at 6 a public hearing in less than a month. We're thrilled by 7 the participation. Just a word of explanation as to how 8 we're going to proceed this afternoon. We have two maps for 9 consideration, one of which has been the subject of a 10 workshop, and the other of which was presented after the 11 workshop. The map which is on my right, your left, was 12 prepared by our legal consultants, the firm of Bickerstaff 13 Heath out of Austin. The map on my left, on your right, was 14 prepared by the William Velasquez Institute out of San 15 Antonio and submitted by Mrs. Sylvia Arredondo as a 16 citizen's map for consideration, and we want to thank her in 17 her efforts for bringing this together. What I'm going to 18 do today -- 19 AUDIENCE: Viola. 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: Viola. I'm sorry, ma'am. 21 What I'm going to do this afternoon first is to allow 22 Ms. Arredondo to make any explanation of her map that she 23 would like to make, and also ask then Mrs. Reddington to 24 briefly describe her map. And then, as part of those 25 explanations, I'll -- we'll allow questions as to the 5 1 specific maps, and then when we're through with the 2 questions as to the specific maps, we'll ask Ms. Reddington 3 if she has any comments regarding the ability of the maps to 4 satisfy the criteria that were adopted by the Court back in 5 April, and after that, then we'll ask for any public 6 comments as to which of the maps is believed to be best 7 serving the interests of all of the citizens of Kerr County. 8 Because this is a public hearing and because 9 we're making a transcription of this hearing, we'll ask you 10 to stand and speak loudly and give your name when asking a 11 question or when coming forward to make public comment for 12 the record. And please excuse me if -- if you forget and I 13 feel the need to remind you for your name, because it is 14 extremely important that we have an accurate record of who 15 made what comments in this very important process. I think 16 there's no more fundamental responsibility of government 17 than to insure that each individual has the right to have 18 their voice heard and have their voice heard equally in 19 their government. County government is the closest form of 20 government to the people; in my opinion, the one that's most 21 responsive to the needs of the people, and we take this 22 responsibility very, very seriously. It's mandated not only 23 by the Texas Constitution, but by the United States 24 Constitution, and has been done every ten years ever since 25 1790, and done successfully. And we are dedicated, here on 6 1 the Commissioners Court, to making sure that the process 2 works and that the final result is something that will serve 3 Kerr County and all of its citizens well for the next ten 4 years. 5 With that brief introduction, I'd like to ask 6 Ms. Arredondo if she would like to come forward and make any 7 comments regarding the map that was submitted on her 8 behalf -- by her on behalf of the citizens of Kerr County. 9 Ms. Arredondo? 10 MS. ARREDONDO: Where would you like me to 11 stand, Judge? 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, you can come down and 13 stand next to your -- your submittal, or you can stand -- 14 MS. ARREDONDO: I'll stand at the table. 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: Whatever works best for you. 16 MS. ARREDONDO: Yes. Good afternoon, Judge 17 and Commissioners. My name is Viola Arredondo. I reside at 18 1201 North Street in Kerrville, and I would like to express 19 my gratitude for this opportunity to speak on this very 20 important issue of redistricting. As we all know, 21 redistricting occurs only once every 10 years. And, because 22 of the growth in Kerr County, we are given an opportunity to 23 make changes that will benefit all of the citizens of Kerr 24 County. I bring your attention to -- to the redistricting 25 plan I submitted, to the right, with the assistance of the 7 1 William C. Velasquez Institute, which is a nonpartisan 2 organization and has a history and experience in assisting 3 communities in the redistricting. 4 It is important to note that the districts, 5 as they appear on the plan, were misnumbered. To avoid the 6 confusion with the information and data submitted to this 7 plan, I will refer to each of the districts as they appear 8 on the plan. There is a striking difference in the plan 9 that I submitted and the plan submitted by the Bickerstaff 10 and Associates. Let me address the most obvious, District 11 3. We acknowledge a new district is being proposed, with 12 its physical boundaries totally within the confines of the 13 city of Kerrville; however, after research, not only have 14 there been other county districts to be drawn within the 15 city limits of certain municipalities, but there are 16 currently -- but currently there are being proposed in the 17 counties of Tom Green, Guadalupe, Travis, and Potter. This 18 not only benefits the County, but it establishes a direct 19 relationship between the County Commissioners and the City 20 officials. 21 The plan I submitted follows traditional 22 redistricting principles, insuring that districts are 23 compact and contiguous. Compactness is important because 24 political representation in our system is based on the 25 belief that geographical communities share a common 8 1 interest. Another reason is the perception that elected 2 officials can better serve their constituents if they are 3 within a more limited geographical area, rather than an area 4 extending over a great distance. It respects the political 5 subdivision. A district should avoid splitting counties, 6 cities, precincts, and other similar governmental or voting 7 units, and placing different portions of such units in 8 different districts. District 3, as proposed, meets this 9 criteria. In communities of interest -- in preserving 10 communities of interest, district lines should be careful 11 not to divide population or communities that have common or 12 shared interests. What constitutes shared interests may be 13 such things as income levels, educational backgrounds, 14 housing patterns and living conditions, cultural and 15 language backgrounds, employment and economic patterns, and 16 the issues raised with the representatives on such issues as 17 crime and education. 18 For the first time in Kerr County's history, 19 we have established an influence district. An influence 20 district is where a minority group constitutes a less-than- 21 controlling voting group in a district, but nevertheless 22 constitutes such a sizable minority in the district so that 23 they can influence the outcome of the election. Sizable is 24 determined to be in the high 30's to 50's. District 3 meets 25 this definition. The Voting Rights Act of 1965 protects 9 1 voters by precluding district lines drawn in a way that 2 results in minority voters having less of a chance to elect 3 the candidate or candidates of their choice. Districts 1, 4 2, and 4, for the most part, will remain intact, with 5 increases in size and overall geographic areas of 6 representation. Let me close by saying thank you for your 7 time and your attention. 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you. Is there anyone 9 in the audience who would have any specific questions of 10 Ms. Arredondo about the map she's presented? Anyone have 11 any specific questions? Yes? 12 MS. DAVIS: I do. 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: Stand up and identify 14 yourself, please. 15 MS. DAVIS: Marie Davis. On District 3, 16 Viola, do you have any county roads that are in that 17 specific area? 18 MS. ARREDONDO: This is all within the city 19 limits, ma'am. 20 MS. DAVIS: Okay. So, you wouldn't 21 actually -- a Commissioner wouldn't have a Commissioner's 22 precinct there, then, would you? 23 MS. ARREDONDO: Yes, ma'am. It's drawn for 24 the Commissioners -- County Commissioners' precinct, yes, 25 ma'am. 10 1 MS. DAVIS: But if you have that -- if you 2 have only city streets and you -- and you do not have county 3 roads -- 'cause it's my understanding that a Commissioner is 4 basically -- their duties are county roads and -- 5 MS. ARREDONDO: That is part of their -- of 6 their duties, ma'am. I have a book that has 75 pages of the 7 Commissioners' duties and responsibilities, and some do fall 8 within the municipalities of -- within the city limits. 9 MS. DAVIS: Sure. Some of their duties -- 10 you're right, but I just wanted to bring up the question of 11 county roads, because it seems like that District 3 you've 12 drawn just for the city, and without any county roads in it 13 at all. But, okay, that's all I have. 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: Anyone else have any 15 questions of Ms. Arredondo regarding her specific proposal? 16 Yes, sir? 17 MR. EVANS: I'm Maury Evans, and I was 18 wondering if you could point out on your map where the 19 precincts are. At least give us sort of a picture of what 20 you're doing. 21 MS. ARREDONDO: Okay. The Precinct 3 that I 22 am referring to is this right here. 23 MR. EVANS: And that's basically the city of 24 Kerrville? 25 MS. ARREDONDO: Yes, sir. 11 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: Could you possibly tell us 2 the boundary streets of that precinct? 3 MS. ARREDONDO: Okay. I have Pershing 4 Avenue. I have Guadalupe Street, Francisco Lemos. It goes 5 on to Benson Drive, Deer Valley Loop. It hits Loop 534, it 6 goes all the way around Loop 534 till it gets down to 7 Cypress Creek Road. Cypress Creek Road down to Linda Joy 8 Drive, Ford Street, Carol Ann Drive, Lytle, Singing Wind 9 Drive, goes all the way down to Memorial Boulevard to 10 Highway 27. And, this is Highway 27. 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. Are there any other 12 questions? Yes, sir? 13 MR. MURPHY: Jim Murphy. Since your lines 14 have been changed where the Commissioner in District 2 no 15 longer lives in that district, and District 3 as well, what 16 are your plans for those two individuals? 17 MS. ARREDONDO: Sir, I believe that our 18 concern for the employment of our Commissioners should not 19 be our priority. Our concern should be the community as a 20 whole, and the community as a whole is our residents that 21 live in this area that stand to benefit from having an 22 elected official that lives and resides in their precinct. 23 It will be another 10 years before we have this opportunity 24 again. 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: Yes, sir? 12 1 MR. BUROW: Clarence Burow. I'm concerned 2 about the population, where we're trying to equalize them. 3 When I drive into town, it says 17,000-something people, and 4 all the others are going to get cut down well below 9,000, 5 accordingly. 6 MS. ARREDONDO: Sir, this is one of the 7 things that we do when we do the districting. Everything 8 has to be equalized. Our deviation is less than 5 percent. 9 We are allowed 10 percent, I believe, by law. 10 MR. BUROW: So, you're -- you were within -- 11 MS. ARREDONDO: Our deviation is far less 12 than even 5 percent in the -- in the deviations of 13 population. 14 MR. BUROW: I think that would be -- you 15 know, the other plan that they've broken down as to who 16 lives -- how many people live in each district, and I'm 17 still saying when I drive into Kerrville, the sign says, 18 "Population 17,000," and that's way above what the -- what 19 the other precincts would have. Am I wrong? 20 MS. ARREDONDO: I'm not sure I understand. 21 You're talking about population. You're talking about 22 voting population? 23 MR. BUROW: I'm talking about what it says, 24 if that's -- you're following the city limit sign, assuming 25 that city limit sign says 17,000 population. 13 1 (Discussion off the record.) 2 MS. ARREDONDO: Total population of District 3 3 is 1,497 (sic). 4 MR. BUROW: 10,497? 5 MR. ARREDONDO: 10,497. 6 MS. ARREDONDO: Ten thousand. 7 MR. ARREDONDO: That does not include all the 8 city. 9 MR. BUROW: Not all the city? 10 MR. ARREDONDO: There are not -- the physical 11 boundaries fall within the city limits, but the total 12 population of District 3 -- 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: Excuse me, sir. Would you 14 identify yourself? 15 MAN: My name is Joseph Arredondo, and I 16 assisted Viola in preparing the -- the data and information, 17 the research and so forth. But, the district -- that 18 particular district only has 10,497. Our largest proposed 19 district is, I believe, 11,315, which is a deviation of less 20 than 4 percent. 21 MR. BUROW: Thank you. 22 MS. ARREDONDO: Which is District 4. 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: Yes, Dawn? 24 JUDGE WRIGHT: I'm Judge Dawn Wright. I'm 25 the J.P. in Precinct 2, and my concern is for the justice 14 1 court in Precinct 3. That's falling entirely within the 2 jurisdiction of municipal court. Would that court be 3 eliminated? 4 MS. ARREDONDO: No, ma'am, I -- I don't think 5 I understand the question. I don't -- 6 JUDGE WRIGHT: Inside the city limits, 7 municipal court has jurisdiction. 8 MS. ARREDONDO: Yes, ma'am. 9 JUDGE WRIGHT: Justice court handles cases 10 outside of the city limits. By putting all of this inside 11 the city limits, would that eliminate the J.P. court in 12 Precinct 3? 13 MS. ARREDONDO: Ma'am, I would have to look 14 into that, but I can say that this has been done at other -- 15 in other areas within -- within the state of Texas, and it 16 is currently being proposed in four other communities -- 17 counties, rather, the counties that I mentioned of Travis, 18 Potter, Guadalupe, and Tom Green. So, I'm sure that -- 19 JUDGE WRIGHT: You don't know if they're 20 eliminated? 21 MS. ARREDONDO: -- that is not a problem. 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any other questions regarding 23 Ms. Arredondo's proposal? 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge? 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: Yes, go ahead, Commissioner. 15 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What is the minority 2 population in Precinct 3 that you've planned? 3 MS. ARREDONDO: Minority -- by "minority," 4 are you speaking Hispanic? Black? 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Total minority. 6 MS. ARREDONDO: In 3? 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Correct. 8 MS. ARREDONDO: Black population is 9 5.2 percent. Hispanic population is 37 -- 37.1 percent. 10 Other is 2.0. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do you have any comments 12 about the fairly sizable primarily Hispanic population that 13 are going to live in -- I guess it would be Precinct 4 on 14 your map, the way you have it drawn. I mean, there are -- 15 right now, that Hispanic population is included in Precinct 16 3, which is the minority precinct currently, and they're 17 being basically taken out of the minority. 18 MS. ARREDONDO: Sir, in order to conform with 19 the compactness and being contiguous, there is no -- no way 20 that we can include them in that part. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So -- but, in the current 22 plan, I believe in our plan up here, they are included in -- 23 that portion of the Hispanic population is included. So -- 24 MS. ARREDONDO: Yes, sir. And, as you can 25 tell by the map, it doesn't look very compact. 16 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: Yes, Commissioner Williams? 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Ms. Arredondo, it 4 would appear from your map that your proposed map has 5 displaced the Precinct 2 Justice of the Peace, who resides 6 in the current Precinct 2, and I'm not certain whether or 7 not you have displaced other J.P.'s or other constables, but 8 I would appreciate you addressing that point, please. 9 MS. ARREDONDO: Okay, sir. My particular map 10 is a proposal. There is nothing that says we have to adhere 11 only to this proposal. It's something that I would like to 12 negotiate and possibly incorporate into what is currently 13 being proposed by -- by the -- the rest of -- or by the 14 Commissioners. Whatever needs to be changed, we are more 15 than willing to -- to see and -- and to negotiate to some 16 kind of -- of an agreeable term. But, as to where -- where 17 they live, their residence, I have no idea. The only 18 addresses that I did have were the County Commissioners' 19 addresses when I started with the plan. 20 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I have a -- 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: Go ahead, Commissioner 22 Griffin. 23 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: What county -- what, 24 if any, county services would you see falling -- would there 25 be any county services in Precinct 3, as you have it mapped, 17 1 that would be provided by Kerr County? For example, Roads 2 and Bridges have been mentioned. There's the law 3 enforcement issues, there are several other areas of county 4 services, and I'm just wondering, is -- did you envision 5 that that all gets taken over by -- since Precinct 3 has no 6 county population in it, unincorporated, that those services 7 would no longer be available in what would then be called 8 Precinct 3? 9 MS. ARREDONDO: No, sir, I do not envision 10 that that would -- that would go away. 11 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: But there would just 12 be a general -- renewal? 13 MS. ARREDONDO: Yes, sir. Yes, sir. 14 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Okay. 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: Right here in the jury box? 16 MR. DONNELL: I'm Charlie Donnell, and I'm 17 not representing anybody in particular, but I'll display my 18 ignorance here, and perhaps you could help me out. Is a 19 County official required to live within his district? 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: Yes. If you're elected by a 21 precinct, you must live within the precinct for which you 22 stand election. 23 MR. DONNELL: And the same for the -- the 24 districts, too? 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: Yes. Back in the back? 18 1 MS. DAVIS: The J.P.'s and constables. 2 MR. MACDONALD: My name is Granger MacDonald. 3 I was curious. You mentioned Potter, Tom Green, and 4 Guadalupe Counties. Have you compared them for any kind of 5 homogeneous situation to Kerr County? 6 MS. ARREDONDO: No, I have not. 7 MR. MACDONALD: I'm intimately familiar with 8 Tom Green County. There's 112,000 people in Tom Green 9 County, and 98,000 of them live in the town of San Angelo, 10 which is significantly different than what we have here in 11 Kerr County. Amarillo is the county seat of Potter County, 12 and it's about the same ratio. Seguin is the county seat of 13 Guadalupe County, and while it's a smaller percentage than 14 Tom Green County or Potter County, they're not relative to 15 the size that we have here in Kerr County, where Kerr County 16 actually has more citizens in the city of Kerrville. 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: Yes? 18 MR. ESTE: Wayne Este from Hunt. Precinct 4 19 here; Precinct 1 there. It says up there, "Citizen Plan," 20 and then you keep referring to "we." Would you identify 21 "citizen" and "we"? Who are "we"? So that we know who 22 we're talking about. 23 MS. ARREDONDO: I'm a citizen here and I 24 reside here in Kerr County, and possibly when I said "we," 25 I -- I was hoping, and I do -- I feel I do have the support 19 1 of some of the people in the audience, so on their behalf, I 2 was saying "we." 3 MR. ESTE: What you're saying -- to answer my 4 question, you're saying you are the citizen presenting this 5 plan, and that "we" encompasses only you? Is that -- 6 MS. ARREDONDO: No, sir, that encompasses 7 other people, other individuals that I have spoken to. 8 MR. ESTE: Would you identify that group, 9 please? 10 MS. ARREDONDO: Sir, there is just a vast 11 different scope of people. I have spoken to some of the 12 black, African American citizens. I have spoken to some 13 Hispanic, and as well as some of the Anglo citizens that 14 live in Kerr County. 15 MR. ESTE: But no identified group? Just -- 16 MS. ARREDONDO: No, sir, there is no group. 17 MR. ESTE: Okay. 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: Anyone else have any 19 questions for Ms. Arredondo? 20 (No response.) 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay, thank you. Ms. 22 Reddington, do you want to give us an explanation as to the 23 Bickerstaff proposal over here? 24 MS. REDDINGTON: Yes, Your Honor. Thank you. 25 Ladies and gentlemen, members of the Commissioners Court, 20 1 it's a pleasure to be back again with you, and I see some 2 familiar faces, but I think we have a few more people than 3 we had the last couple of times I was down. If you don't 4 mind, Judge, since there are some people here who were not 5 at our first meeting, might we talk a little bit about some 6 of the general redistricting principles? And that will 7 help, I think, to explain the plan that was developed to 8 present to Kerr County today. There are several basic 9 principles that govern redistricting. 10 The first one, and the most compelling one is 11 the one-person, one-vote requirement of the United States 12 Constitution. This provision requires that when we draw 13 districts for representatives, people who serve in a 14 representative capacity, after the census numbers come out 15 every ten years, those districts should be balanced and be 16 relatively equal in population. When you're drawing 17 constitutional or congressional districts, they are almost 18 exactly even. We have a little bit of leeway when we're 19 drawing local government districts, such as single-member 20 school board districts, Commissioners Court districts, City 21 Council, or ward districts. The courts have said that they 22 need to be within about 10 percent from the biggest to the 23 smallest in deviation from the ideal precinct size, so we 24 try very hard to draw lines that will bring the populations 25 into balance. 21 1 In addition, the Voting Rights Act covers the 2 state of Texas and covers any change in election procedures, 3 election requirements, and the Voting Rights Act protects 4 minorities, and we may not draw lines that have the purpose 5 or the effect of discriminating against minorities. So, we 6 are keeping two general principles in mind; one person, one 7 vote, and the Voting Rights Act. But then there are a host 8 of other principles that are also important in 9 redistricting. These are considered, or have come to be 10 called the traditional redistricting criteria, or 11 traditional redistricting principles. And, those of you who 12 were part of the Citizens' Advisory Committee or who were 13 here at the last couple of meetings heard the Court discuss 14 the types of criteria, the criteria that they would want to 15 adopt and try to follow as we developed a new districting 16 plan for Kerr County. I will just go over briefly what some 17 of those criteria were, because the courts have said they 18 have found over the years that these are important 19 considerations in addition to the one person/one vote and 20 Voting Rights Act considerations. 21 First of all, one redistricting criteria 22 that's very important is to follow easily identifiable and 23 often geographic boundaries; perhaps a river, a creek, a 24 stream, a road, a highway, something that people can 25 recognize as being a good boundary for a district, so 22 1 they'll know where they live. "Well, I live on this side of 2 Highway 7, and I live north of Behrens Creek" or something, 3 so they'll know where they reside and they can identify the 4 boundaries of their district. Also, the courts have agreed 5 over the years that communities of interest should be kept 6 together. What's a community of interest? Well, it can be 7 a neighborhood. It can be a subdivision. It can be an 8 ethnic group. It can be a city. It can be a group of 9 people who are of similar socioeconomic classification, 10 people with, maybe, religious preferences. There are many 11 different kinds of communities of interest. They develop 12 over time, and they can be respected and should be respected 13 as these lines are being drawn. 14 To the extent possible, Commissioners 15 precincts should be composed of whole voting precincts. The 16 elections administrators have a very difficult time when we 17 change boundaries of election precincts, and voters have a 18 difficult time because they are suddenly, perhaps, voting in 19 a new location and they have to relearn where they're to 20 vote, who the candidates are, who would be representing 21 them, and it causes a lot of confusion. If any of you have 22 ever had your polling place changed, had your voting 23 district redrawn, you will -- you understand why it is 24 important, whenever possible, to use the voting districts 25 that we currently have. 23 1 In addition, we try to base our line drawing 2 on the existing precincts and districts as they are now, 3 because people have come to develop constituent/ 4 representative relationships with their Commissioners, with 5 their Justices of the Peace, their constables. They know 6 these people, they voted for them, they put them in office. 7 They've gone to them with their problems and asked for their 8 help in resolving them. So we try to preserve, where we 9 can, the constituent/representative relationship. This is 10 accepted by the courts as a standard redistricting 11 principle. 12 I mentioned that the districts should not 13 exceed 10 percent in deviation, and I did not mention, but 14 Ms. Arredondo mentioned, and this is very correct, districts 15 should be compact and they should be contiguous. What does 16 "compact" mean? Well, it can mean that it's very small in 17 size, or what you could get within a circle. But, it can 18 also be compact if there are adequate -- there's a 19 functional compactness dimension to all of this. If a road 20 goes through a district and everyone can use that road, the 21 district may be long, may be narrow, but it is functionally 22 compact because it is accessible. The various parts of the 23 district are accessible. So, we -- compactness is 24 important, and contiguity is important. Believe it or not, 25 there are a few counties in the state where the districts -- 24 1 a Commissioner's district might be broken into two parts. 2 Well, that is not how it should be. That is not 3 appropriate, and we certainly don't want that to happen in 4 this county, so we want the districts to be contiguous. 5 And then, as I said, the plan should be very 6 carefully tailored to avoid retrogression in the position of 7 racial minorities. And, what does "retrogression" mean? 8 Well, it means drawing districts that are substantially 9 smaller -- that have substantially smaller minority 10 populations than in the past. Sometimes there is an attempt 11 made, in violation, really, of the Voting Rights Act, to 12 split minorities and to put -- when you could draw a strong 13 minority district with over 50 percent minorities, there has 14 been historically in places an attempt to divide those 15 minorities, split them up, put them into two precincts and 16 keep them from electing someone to represent them who would 17 be of that particular minority. That's called fracturing or 18 splitting of minorities. The Voting Rights Act says that 19 you cannot do that. 20 And, in addition, you cannot pack minorities. 21 Sometimes minorities would have enough to have a strong 22 influence or even elect a minority representative of their 23 choice in two different districts, but by drawing lines in a 24 certain way, you pack all the minorities together into one 25 district. You have confined them to electing only one 25 1 representative. So, this is also considered something that 2 runs afoul of the Voting Rights Act. So, these are the 3 principles that we talked about in the Commissioners Court, 4 and the Court actually adopted a set of criteria based on 5 these traditional redistricting concepts that they wanted to 6 use to guide them as they develop plans. 7 Now, in working with the Commissioners, in 8 meeting with the advisory committee, our firm has worked on 9 computers -- nowadays, all of this is done by computer, and 10 we've worked to develop a plan that tries to follow these 11 various redistricting criteria, and we have come up with -- 12 after several different iterations, Judge, and several 13 different times of trying this, we've come up with what 14 we're calling Kerr County Illustrative Plan 2. And, those 15 of you who were here at the last meeting remember that there 16 were some concerns about certain lines, and so we have 17 adjusted -- gone back to the drawing board, if you will, and 18 adjusted this, and we've tried to keep a number of these -- 19 or all of these criteria in mind as we drew these lines. We 20 wanted to avoid disruption of Commissioner/constituent 21 relationships. We wanted to try to use existing precinct 22 lines where we could, voting district lines where we could, 23 to minimize the disruption that the redistricting will 24 cause. 25 Kerr County had grown considerably, and after 26 1 the census of 2000 data was released, we analyzed that data 2 and we found that the total maximum deviation from the 3 largest to the smallest precinct, the total deviation from 4 the ideal precinct size in Kerr County was 17.43 percent. 5 Well, that was well above the 10 percent that is really 6 acceptable, and so we -- we then determined that the ideal 7 precinct size should be 10,913. That's easy to determine, 8 because you simply divide the population of the county by 9 four. Now, when we did the assessment and we analyzed the 10 demographics, where people live in Kerr County, we found 11 that you have one precinct that is predominantly Hispanic. 12 And, if you take the most recent census data and you 13 superimpose it on the current Commissioner precinct lines, 14 you find that one precinct, Precinct 3, this one right here, 15 is 36.02 percent Hispanic currently. Now, that's the 16 current census data superimposed on the current census 17 lines. Okay? That's what we brought to the court the first 18 time in our initial assessments. It was this booklet that 19 we brought to the County. 20 So, what does the 36 percent figure mean to 21 us? It means that that is kind of a benchmark. We don't 22 want to go too much above -- we don't want to go too much 23 below that figure in redrawing these lines and rebalancing 24 the precincts, because that would be considered 25 retrogressive, and we don't want to run afoul of the Voting 27 1 Rights Act, and we don't want to do that. So, as we 2 developed this new plan, we were very careful that we didn't 3 deviate too much from the 36 percent figure. Now, the plan 4 that Mrs. Arredondo presented -- and I have to say that I 5 think it's wonderful to have another option, another plan 6 presented. It's very normal and very typical. We do 7 redistricting all over the state, and we see citizen plans 8 often presented, and she has done a very good job with her 9 data. And we received at our office late last week the 10 digital format data, and we were able to print up a plan in 11 a very similar format to this one so that we could make a 12 better comparison. 13 I will tell you, Ms. Arredondo, that we came 14 up with a slightly different number, probably having to do 15 with some split census blocks, but it's not too different, 16 and I have those numbers for you. But, we came up with very 17 similar numbers to what you -- you mentioned as you 18 presented your plan. The numbers that are important for 19 this plan that the Commissioners are looking at are the 20 deviation, the total deviation numbers. And, by working 21 very closely, we were able to get the total maximum 22 deviation under this plan down to 2.87 percent. So, we're 23 trying very hard to get all of the precincts equal, because 24 it's not fair for you to live in a precinct that is 25 overpopulated and someone else to live in a precinct that is 28 1 underpopulated, because you are having to share that 2 Commissioner with more people and your influence is somewhat 3 diluted. So, it's important to get as close to zero as you 4 can, and this plan does that with a 2.87 percent total 5 maximum deviation. That's the difference between the 6 largest and the smallest as they deviate from the ideal 7 precinct size. 8 And, we also maintained the minority 9 percentage in Precinct 3. With this plan that was developed 10 by the Commissioners Court, it was 35.15 percent minority -- 11 or Hispanic, I should say, and 4.02 percent black or African 12 American, and then there were some other non-Hispanic and 13 Asian individuals living in this precinct. Non-Hispanic 14 Asian was .52 percent, less than 1 percent, and non-Hispanic 15 other -- that could be Hawaiian, Pacific Islander, many 16 different racial groups would be considered in that 17 category, and we have 1.48 percent non-Hispanic other ethnic 18 groups. So, this -- this remains a minority precinct. It 19 remains, we think, a non-retrogressive plan. And, Judge, 20 I'd be happy to answer any questions about it. I think that 21 pretty well gives some background and brings everybody up to 22 speed who might have missed the first couple of meetings. 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: Are there any questions for 24 Ms. Reddington regarding the Bickerstaff Illustrative Plan 25 Number 2? 29 1 MS. ARREDONDO: Yes. 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: Yes, Ms. Arredondo? 3 MS. ARREDONDO: Ms. Reddington, could you 4 please tell us what possible things do the people that 5 live -- the Hispanic people -- you said the Hispanic 6 community have in common that live in the city with the 7 people that live out in the rural areas. Can you tell us 8 what the commonalities are? 9 MS. REDDINGTON: The Hispanic population, 10 or -- 11 MS. ARREDONDO: The population that you have 12 in the city with the population that is out in the rural. 13 What are the commonalities? Because that is one of the 14 concerns. 15 MS. REDDINGTON: Well, I think that people, 16 whether they're living within a city or living out in the 17 country, share a common interest in good county government, 18 in having the court systems, the jail, the law enforcement 19 systems properly handled, electing individuals who will be 20 able to carry out those administrative duties. In counties, 21 the Commissioners Court and the County Judge -- with the 22 help of the County Judge, has the budgeting 23 responsibilities, adopts the budget for the county and 24 allocates funds for various county purposes. So, I think 25 anyone living in the city or the county would probably have 30 1 those common concerns. 2 MS. ARREDONDO: Would you say that language, 3 educational, income levels are the same? 4 MS. REDDINGTON: I don't know. I don't know 5 that much about the education levels or the -- or the 6 difference between education levels in the country and in 7 the city. I don't think that that would be a particular 8 difference. There are highly educated individuals in the 9 country and in the city, and vice-versa. Yes, sir? 10 MR. SIEMERS: Paul Siemers. I have a couple 11 quick -- well, one particular question. If I understand it, 12 the citizen plan is 100 percent -- the precinct that's in 13 the city is 100 percent made up of city residents? 14 MS. ARREDONDO: That is correct. 15 MR. SIEMERS: How is the city distributed, 16 percentage-wise, in the districts in your plan? 17 MS. REDDINGTON: I can't tell you exactly, 18 because we don't have any data on exactly how many live 19 within the city. We could develop that; it would take some 20 time. But, if you look at it, it's typical of Texas 21 counties, where usually each precinct comes into the county 22 seat into the courthouse area. It looks, just by eyeballing 23 it -- that's really all I can do -- it looks like more of 24 the city population is in Precinct 3. There is some 25 residential developments down in here that would be in 31 1 Precinct 2. It might be suburban; it might be slightly 2 outside the city limits. Precinct 1 has a sizable urban 3 population in Kerrville, and then Precinct 4 comes into the 4 town and into the city limits, but it also contains the 5 somewhat urban area of Ingram. So, it would be hard to say, 6 and I don't know that that's a statistic that would be of 7 concern under the Voting Rights Act. 8 MR. SIEMERS: Have you had access to the 9 distributional data to determine the standard deviation for 10 the citizen plan? 11 MS. REDDINGTON: Yes, we did. And, as I was 12 telling Ms. Arredondo, we did attempt to calculate that 13 using her data, and I can go through that. We came up with 14 a slightly different total maximum deviation for this plan. 15 And I haven't had an opportunity to give this to her, but 16 I'm -- I brought a number of copies for you and for the 17 Court to distribute. But, it looks like, under her plan, 18 Precinct 1 -- this is the way we put it on the computer, and 19 it's -- 20 MR. SIEMERS: Let me ask you a specific 21 question. 22 MS. REDDINGTON: Let me -- 23 MR. SIEMERS: Is there anything retrogressive 24 about what they've done in their plan? 25 MS. REDDINGTON: No, their plan does not 32 1 appear to me to be retrogressive. I do think this plan 2 is -- I think both plans are satisfactory under the Voting 3 Rights Act, but I do want to share with you the numbers we 4 were able to come up with, and you can see if you think this 5 is about what you had. For Precinct 1, we had a population 6 of 10,497, with a deviation from the ideal precinct size of 7 minus 3.81 percent. For Precinct 2, 11,315, with a 8 deviation of plus 3.68 percent. For Precinct 3, 10,493 9 persons, being underpopulated minus 3.85 percent. And then, 10 District 4, with 11,348, being overpopulated 3.99 percent. 11 So, when we calculated that, what you do when 12 you have your -- your plus and your minus, you -- and you're 13 subtracting a minus from a minus, you turn it into a plus 14 sign and you actually are adding those two together, if you 15 remember your math from grade school. So, what we get is 16 3.99 percent minus minus 3.85 percent, for a total maximum 17 deviation of 7.84 percent. So your deviation is a little 18 higher than you indicated, at least when we put it on the 19 map, but it's not a lot different. And it probably has to 20 do with some split census blocks, which we did not attempt 21 to change in your plan, but we've corrected in the county 22 plan that we've been working on. So -- but that's not -- 23 you know, that's something you can go back in and work on. 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any other questions for 25 Ms. Reddington? Yes, Mr. Arredondo? 33 1 MR. ARREDONDO: Joseph Arredondo. In the -- 2 in the 1990 County Commissioners redistricting, the -- I 3 believe District 3 just came a little bit above Interstate 4 10, and now it drops way down to the end of the county, and 5 there seems to be quite a bit of an extension there. 6 MS. REDDINGTON: You're talking about this 7 area right down in here? 8 MS. ARREDONDO: And a little bit higher. 9 Also in the 1990 plan, it shows, in my view, an unusual boot 10 there which comes out and kind of sticks out like a sore 11 finger into District 2. Can you tell me the reasoning 12 behind why that was done? 13 MS. REDDINGTON: I -- I don't know what was 14 done in 1990. I can't address that. I can tell you what I 15 think happened down here. 16 MR. ARREDONDO: Yes. 17 MS. REDDINGTON: If you want me to try to do 18 that, 'cause I'm looking at the 1991 plan which we presented 19 to the County in the initial assessment of the current plan. 20 There is a -- there is a very large census block down here. 21 It's very large. And -- 22 MR. ARREDONDO: When you say large, what's 23 the number? 24 MS. REDDINGTON: Let me explain that what we 25 use when we draw these plans is the census geography, and 34 1 it's -- this is sort of what it looks like. This is a map 2 which shows these black lines, shows the census blocks, and 3 here you can see, some of them are very large. Some of them 4 are -- create little doughnut shapes. But, as you move into 5 the city -- this is a close-up of the city -- they usually 6 conform to the city blocks. So, out in the rural areas, 7 they're quite an irregular shape and sometimes very large, 8 but in town they're the size of usually a city block. 9 Here we had a very large and irregular census 10 block which the County, in 1991, or maybe in 1981 or 11 whenever they first redistricted, decided to cut with a 12 voting box line, and so that meant that District 2 actually 13 looked like this. I don't know if you can see it. I 14 apologize for the small size here, but it actually was 15 shaped like this. We went back and corrected that and took 16 the entire census block into Precinct 3. We did that to 17 avoid having the problem of a split block, because when you 18 have a split block you have to send someone from the County 19 out on the ground to walk around and see how many houses are 20 on this side of the line that splits it, how many houses are 21 on the other side of the line that splits it. It's a 22 continuing -- it's a nightmare, and it's labor-intensive and 23 it really is a -- an area where you can have some 24 inaccuracies and it's difficult to allocate the population 25 to the right district. 35 1 So, in talking with the Commissioners, they 2 felt that it was appropriate to get that whole census block 3 into one precinct or the other, and so that's why this line 4 was drawn this way and why it looks a little different than 5 it does -- than it did in the 1991 plan. Now, the other 6 question you had about north here? I don't -- I don't think 7 I understand your question. I didn't follow. 8 MR. ARREDONDO: Well, there seems to be a 9 portion of District 3 that comes down, and is that -- kind 10 of a boot-like shape. Is that as a result of population in 11 that area? 12 MS. REDDINGTON: This right here? 13 MR. ARREDONDO: Yes, ma'am. 14 MS. REDDINGTON: That would be within the 15 city limits of Kerrville, it appears. And I imagine we drew 16 it that way in order to be sure that we maintained an 17 adequate minority population and didn't retrogress. I'm 18 thinking that's probably what happened there. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If I can make two 20 comments to help address Mr. Arredondo's comments, and this 21 is for everyone else's information, as well. Census blocks 22 are developed -- correct me if I'm wrong, Ms. Reddington. 23 Census blocks were developed by the Census Bureau, and have 24 no relationship necessarily to population. There are 25 numerous census blocks in the county, including some to the 36 1 far south, that don't have any population in them. So, 2 you're not changing people; you're just making a -- you 3 know, things fit a little bit better. There are a few 4 subdivisions in that far corner that has more, I guess, in 5 common with Comfort area, as opposed to Center Point area. 6 MS. REDDINGTON: Few people down here. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's kind of the Pipe 8 Creek/Comfort area. They go to the Comfort schools. That 9 was the reason it was put back in here, I guess, the 10 commonality issue. 11 MS. ARREDONDO: Commonality with what? 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: With the Comfort schools. 13 MR. ARREDONDO: District 3 or District 2? 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The people in that far 15 southern area go to Comfort schools. 16 MR. ARREDONDO: They used to be part of 17 District 2. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right, but they still 19 went to Comfort schools, and this is Precinct -- most of the 20 rural area of Precinct 3 on this map goes to the Comfort 21 schools. Most of the rural area of Precinct 2 go to Center 22 Point schools. Those are keeping commonalities together a 23 little bit. As for the reason the boot sits down in there, 24 the hole in the middle of that little area near the city is 25 Schreiner College, and those are, I guess, primarily student 37 1 dorms. And we were doing it to what the data looked like; 2 that's why it was drawn that way. It was drawn the same way 3 last time. We found kind of -- 4 MS. REDDINGTON: That tends to be more Anglo. 5 It would seem the percentage of Anglo population is higher, 6 so it would not make sense to put that into Precinct 3, 7 because it would dilute the minority population in 8 Precinct 3. 9 MS. ARREDONDO: Ms. Reddington, would you say 10 that District 3, then, meets the definition of a compact 11 district, the way it looks? As it appears? 12 MS. REDDINGTON: I actually think that it 13 does. It's very hard, when you have a county like this, 14 where your population center is not in the middle of the 15 county, it's hard to really deal with that, and some of 16 these lines look sort of funny because we're following 17 highways or we're following creeks, and those don't give you 18 a very smooth or even line. But, they're good boundaries to 19 use, because typically people don't live down in the creek 20 bottoms, and so you've got a good line that doesn't -- that 21 isn't confusing to people. So, we've got some 22 irregularities just because of that. I would say that it is 23 functionally compact. I think it's a districting plan that 24 makes sense. 25 There -- there are not many places left where 38 1 you can really draw a nice square district. I have a couple 2 of counties in west Texas where we still have sort of a 3 grid, almost, for the Commissioners' districts, and they all 4 come into the courthouse and one of them has the northwest 5 corner and one of them has the southwest corner, and it 6 still looks like you sort of would imagine it, and very 7 compact. And -- but most districts -- most counties, with 8 the pressure from the Voting Rights Act in 1991 to maximize 9 population of minorities in districts, and just the 10 practical considerations with rivers and mountains and big 11 ranches and everything and major highways, don't look as 12 neat as we might wish. 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: Yes, sir? 14 MR. EVANS: Maury Evans again. I was 15 wondering if you could tell me -- trace the boundaries of 3 16 and tell me what the boundaries are. Like, if I went to -- 17 and she did on her 3, and I was wondering if you could tell 18 me, 'cause I tried to draw some maps of the precincts and so 19 forth from what the County has available now, and I went to 20 look at the booklet from 1990, and it's 42 pages long, to 21 describe how this county's redistricted -- or districted, 22 and I had a hell of a time finding the boundaries there. 23 And I was wondering, could you tell me -- 24 MS. REDDINGTON: I can do that for you. I'll 25 try. This is the Fredericksburg Highway coming down from 39 1 the northeast. Then this is Interstate 10 -- I might have 2 to get my glasses here. This is Interstate 10 as the -- 3 really, the northern boundary across here, east-west. Let's 4 see. Then this follows the -- the current Commissioners' 5 precinct line here. We did not deviate from that. 6 MR. EVANS: Yeah, I understand that, but can 7 you tell me what it is? 'Cause the current one is really 8 hell to figure out. You just follow the current one? 9 MS. REDDINGTON: We followed the current 10 boundary line. Maybe one of the Commissioners can help me 11 with that, this street name. 12 MR. EVANS: That's my problem, is the current 13 ones are really difficult to follow. 14 AUDIENCE: What do you mean, current? 15 MS. REDDINGTON: Do you want me to tell you 16 the current lines, or do you want me to tell you -- 17 MR. EVANS: Well, you're using the current 18 ones. It would be nice to know what the current ones are. 19 MS. REDDINGTON: Well, I'm sorry, we didn't 20 label -- we only labeled where we changed, where we deviated 21 from the current lines, so I don't have a label on that, but 22 I'm sure we could look at a street map -- 23 MR. EVANS: We've had trouble finding out 24 what precinct people actually live in that are running for 25 office. 40 1 MS. REDDINGTON: To help you out a little bit 2 right here, because we eliminated a jog that came in right 3 here and just carried that line straight across. And, I 4 think that -- let's see -- Lake Street. Let's see. 5 AUDIENCE: Lake Drive. 6 MS. REDDINGTON: Lake, and then it comes 7 around here; this is a creek. 8 MR. GARZA: That's Town Creek. 9 MS. REDDINGTON: So you would follow Town 10 Creek here down to Main Street, okay? At Main, you then go 11 northwest on Water Street. This is -- this is the 12 current -- no, that is not a current line. You'd go 13 northwest on Water Street to Irene, to -- 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Guadalupe. 15 MS. REDDINGTON: Guadalupe. You follow 16 Guadalupe over to the river here. 17 MR. EVANS: Which side of the river is the 18 precinct on? Do you know? 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: North side. 20 MS. REDDINGTON: Well, it's on the north. 21 This is the river right along here. 22 MR. EVANS: Okay. So, the boundary is the 23 north side of the river? 24 MS. REDDINGTON: The north side is Irene 25 Street to Guadalupe street, and then the Guadalupe River, 41 1 all the way around to Sidney Baker. Sidney Baker. And we 2 have a little jog in here which we maintained so that this 3 justice precinct can have an office at the courthouse, 4 because that -- I mean, the confusion that would be involved 5 in moving a justice precinct office, where the highway 6 patrol is used to filing their tickets, people are used to 7 going for small claims court and everything, would be 8 tremendous. And then we -- we did clean that boundary up a 9 little bit by continuing on here from Earl Garrett down to 10 Water Street, and then from Water back to the river, and 11 then just following the existing boundary on out. So, that 12 kind of walked you around the -- 13 MRS. EVANS: But we're over here on the edge. 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: Excuse me, ma'am. You need 15 to identify yourself. 16 MRS. EVANS: Excuse me. I'm Joanne Evans, 17 and we're down to the current boundary. Please continue 18 down. 19 MS. REDDINGTON: Okay. 20 MRS. EVANS: Because we've got that little -- 21 little thing sticking out that looks all by itself. 22 MS. REDDINGTON: All right. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Which little thing? 24 MRS. EVANS: We were down -- 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: By Schreiner College? 42 1 MRS. EVANS: No, down at the edge of the map. 2 MR. EVANS: The last part of it. 3 MS. REDDINGTON: Do you want to just come up 4 and point to it? 5 MRS. EVANS: Sure. Sure I will. 6 (Mrs. Evans indicated on the map.) 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Lane Valley. 8 MRS. EVANS: You've taken it down into here, 9 haven't you? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 11 MS. REDDINGTON: Right along here. 12 MRS. EVANS: Yeah. But, I -- this is -- you 13 know -- 14 MS. REDDINGTON: Then it goes down here. 15 MRS. EVANS: Yes. But -- 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You're talking about in 17 the far southeastern part of the county? 18 MRS. EVANS: She just left it here, and I was 19 concerned about -- 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 21 MRS. EVANS: -- some of that there. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What we used primarily 23 when we got out in that other area is the census block, 24 following the power lines, the main transmission. 25 MRS. EVANS: Power lines, oh. 43 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And we -- well, you have 2 to use the census blocks. We didn't pick the census blocks, 3 so we use did census blocks and went along there, and 4 through Commissioners Williams and myself looking at the 5 roads, put the -- tried to keep, like -- so everyone that 6 lives on Lane Valley is in one precinct, everyone that lives 7 on up toward Stoneleigh, as best we could, to get everyone 8 that lived off -- used a road that lived off a road to be in 9 one block, using the census blocks that were predetermined 10 by the Census Department. 11 MS. REDDINGTON: Believe me, I wish we could 12 have intervened earlier, could have intervened with the 13 Census Bureau and helped them draw new census blocks or 14 create census blocks that were easier to work with. They 15 are a handicap for us. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The area I would agree 17 it's difficult is the north boundary of Precinct 2. 18 MS. REDDINGTON: Right here. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right through here, the 20 power lines. We tried to clean that up this year, and -- 21 Commissioner Williams and I did. We both met with 22 Ms. Reddington, and I think we have it a lot better than it 23 used to be. That far corner that goes to the south, that's 24 basically Lane Valley Road. We picked everything on Lane 25 Valley Road and a little bit down towards Lake Hills 44 1 Subdivision in the far southeastern corner. 2 MR. EVANS: That little green -- from the 3 very bottom up to where that little green part shoots off -- 4 no, a little bit further up. There's a little green chad 5 sticking out. 6 MS. REDDINGTON: Why does that look like 7 that? It's a chad. 8 MR. EVANS: What is that? 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's a census block. 10 It's a large census block. 11 MS. REDDINGTON: It's just an 12 irregularly-shaped census block. 13 MR. EVANS: And if you get those census 14 blocks, can you actually figure out where your boundary is? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We did the best we can, 16 but some of them are very difficult, I'll agree, you know, 17 county-wide, on some of the boundaries that were used by the 18 Census Department. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Also voting 20 districts. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And voting districts. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: An attempt not to 23 split a voting district. 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: Yes, sir? 25 MR. MURPHY: Could you do this later and get 45 1 on with what we're supposed to be here for? 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: We're here for -- 3 MR. EVANS: I thought that's what we were 4 here for. 5 MR. MURPHY: We're here to point out plans 6 and so forth. 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: It's important for people to 8 know where their boundaries are. So, are there any other 9 questions for Ms. Reddington? Over here. Yes, sir? 10 MR. BUROW: Clarence Burow. I have a 11 question. I want to confirm the census -- I worked in 12 census when it was -- you had the entire 43 sheets of blank 13 sheets, because there was no population in it, no lines. 14 Virtually impossible to -- but that's a statement. The 15 question is, the minorities in -- in the other precincts, 16 you told us about 3. Do you have the -- 17 MS. REDDINGTON: Yes, sir. 18 MR. BUROW: I'd like to know how they're 19 broken up in the others. 20 MS. REDDINGTON: Okay. In Precinct 1 -- I'm 21 just going to talk about Hispanic and -- 22 MR. BUROW: Okay. 23 MS. REDDINGTON: -- non-Hispanic black, 24 because the other groups are really small enough that I 25 don't think that they are going to have a big impact. 46 1 Precinct 1, this precinct here, has -- in this plan, under 2 this plan, 12.95 percent Hispanic and 1.05 percent black. 3 Precinct 2, under this plan, has 17.53 percent Hispanic, and 4 1.06 percent black. As we said, just so you can remember, 5 Precinct 3 has 35.15 percent Hispanic and -- let's see, and 6 4.02 percent black. And Precinct 4 has 11.21 percent 7 Hispanic, and .67 percent black. 8 MR. BUROW: So, they've essentially got one 9 precinct where the Hispanic population could swing some 10 political weight? 11 MS. REDDINGTON: Yes, it's an impact 12 precinct. The technical term, as Mr. Arredondo said, is an 13 impact precinct. It will have an impact on the election. A 14 candidate can have an impact. You look at the percentage of 15 voting age population, though, when you're doing a voting 16 rights analysis, and I think that might be a figure of 17 interest. In Precinct 3, the total Hispanic voting age 18 population is 30.15 percent, so it is still -- under this 19 plan, it is still a substantial minority percentage in terms 20 of voting age population. 21 MR. BUROW: Thank you. 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any other questions for Ms. 23 Reddington? Yes, sir? 24 MR. KING: I'm Streeter King. Mr. Evans 25 mentioned about maps. I know sooner or later you're going 47 1 to get into the voting boxes and so forth, and that's really 2 the -- the real problem with maps, 'cause we can't walk 3 precincts by metes and bounds, and that's what he was 4 talking about with 42 pages. We need adequate maps, and I 5 don't know whether the County will furnish them where we get 6 them, but it's very difficult to do anything, you know, the 7 county -- Precinct 1 thing. But the voting is very 8 important, so I don't know when you're going to get into 9 that. 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: We'll take up the voting 11 election precincts after we have concluded with Commissioner 12 precincts. The timetable for that is not quite so severe. 13 MR. KING: Okay. 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: The schedule the Court 15 adopted had us approving the new voting election precincts 16 by October 1st. 17 MR. KING: Okay. Well, as long as we can get 18 some maps by the time the election rolls around. 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: Absolutely, sir. 20 MR. KING: It would be nice. 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. Any other questions 22 for Ms. Reddington? Okay. Thank you, Penny. Yes, sir? 23 MR. FURMAN: Judge, is it appropriate at this 24 time to make comments, just general comment? 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: If there are no other 48 1 questions of -- regarding either of the specific maps, yes, 2 it is -- at this time, this is a public hearing. If anyone 3 would like to offer specific public comments, we'd entertain 4 those at this time. Since you're on your feet, I'll 5 recognize Jack Furman. 6 MR. FURMAN: I'm Jack Furman. I've looked at 7 these things this morning, and I notice Ms. Arredondo, if I 8 understood her correctly a while ago, indicated that the 9 maximum deviation was under 5 percent. My numbers have the 10 maximum deviation at 7.8 percent, using her numbers, and a 11 minimum deviation of 7.5 percent, whereas the law firm's 12 deviation I have at 2.87 maximum, and .46 minimum. That 13 seems to be, to me, a much more even population 14 distribution. I didn't see a lot of difference in the 15 Hispanic and black population differences between the two 16 plans, but I was concerned that Precinct 3 was drawn in the 17 city limits of Kerrville where the County has no Road and 18 Bridge, only rarely has any law enforcement activity. So, 19 if the citizens of Kerrville have only one Commissioner, 20 basically, although the City represents almost half the 21 population of the county and furnishes over half of the 22 county tax revenue -- at least it used to; I guess those 23 numbers are about the same -- it seems to me that this plan, 24 Illustrative Plan 2, is a lot more exorable than this plan 25 in terms of population distribution and fairness. 49 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: We have a request from David 2 Jackson to make some comments. David? 3 MR. JACKSON: Thank you, Your Honor. Jack, I 4 think, made some very good points. If I understand the 5 criteria correctly, you -- these are not your words; these 6 are my words -- that you would want to develop a compelling 7 reason to change what the status-quo is, what the existing 8 districts are, perhaps to come to some clear understanding 9 why you should redraw the lines, move people around, move 10 offices, perhaps, and those sorts of things. It's there, 11 really, the debate gets down to a very interesting study of 12 the City versus the County, which is the point that Jack's 13 raising. And I don't think there's a compelling reason to 14 do that in Kerr County. 15 In my work and what I do, I see residents of 16 a very similar standing, a very similar interest all over 17 the county. It's true that some portions of the county have 18 an agricultural focus, but for the most part, when you draw 19 a circle around the city, the city calls that an ETJ. It's 20 another way of identifying, perhaps, the area that's 21 currently under development. We have an awful lot of 22 development out in the county that, in some cities -- 23 perhaps even Austin, where you come from -- would be urban 24 in nature. They're small-acreage tracts that are served by 25 water, sewer issues. Those all need representation on a 50 1 balanced, equal plan, which is one of the criteria. 2 So, my observation is, I don't think there's 3 a compelling reason to make one district all within the city 4 if you really want to come up with what would be in the best 5 interests of all of the Kerr citizens. The County 6 Commissioners should represent a district that -- I hear the 7 word "compact." I kind of understand what that means, but 8 it should have some fairly homogenous, similar interests. 9 But, you also want the Commissioners to represent a 10 population and not, as Jack says, have just a constituency 11 that's already, in large part, represented by the city, the 12 tax base and those sort of things. We have a lot of people 13 outside the city, and I don't think that it's compelling, to 14 me, at least, in listening to the presentation. I do 15 respect the issue here, and I respect the alternative that 16 has been presented, but I'd come down to no real reason to 17 make that kind of a dramatic change at this time, based on 18 what I think the population is made up of. 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you. Jim Murphy? Jim, 20 did you want to say anything? Okay. Mr. MacDonald? 21 MR. MACDONALD: Granger MacDonald, in what's 22 now Precinct 2. I'd like to compliment the work done by the 23 Bickerstaff group on the -- on the map of trying to keep 24 four very equal socioeconomic entities. And all four 25 precincts, as are drawn on that, share some commonality; has 51 1 some urban area, has some rural area, and the four different 2 precincts show a lot of -- of the same values and goals of 3 what needs to be accomplished. The Commissioners Court has 4 got a big job in the next ten years of handling surface 5 water, wells, septic tanks, and the Sheriff's Department, 6 and the last thing you need to do is create one precinct 7 that has no interest in the Sheriff's Department, no 8 interest in septic tanks, no interest in surface water, and 9 no interest in what happens to water wells or development in 10 the county. And -- because you've created a precinct that's 11 already developed, already in the city, and that's served 12 strictly by the police force. The new city precincts would 13 not have any interest in what happens to volunteer fire 14 departments. This County Commissioners Court has been great 15 about supporting volunteer fire departments. You've got to 16 keep four precincts that have got common problems so that 17 they can understand what's going on for the benefit of the 18 entire Kerr County population. Thank you, sir. 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you. Yes, sir? 20 MR. KUBENKA: Yes. My name is Stan Kubenka. 21 I'd like to bring up two points to the Court. Number one, 22 I'd like to focus your effort to the fact that you're 23 speaking of county government, not cities. There are other 24 cities, like Ingram is a -- a true city. And Center Point, 25 of course, is a community. Also, I'd like you to look at 52 1 the vision for long-term. I know that's difficult, but we 2 have the citizen plan over here that appears to have a 3 Commissioners drawing line that would be very nonvisionary 4 for the long-term. There's no doubt that our Kerr County is 5 a targeted area for growth. Like it or not, this is what's 6 happening. And if we were to choose the citizen plan, that 7 Number 3 would probably be proportionally out of whack 8 within the first 12 months of the first ten years. So, I'd 9 like you to consider Plan 2. I think it's had the most work 10 done that's been constructed for all the citizens of Kerr 11 County for the county government. Thank you. 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you. Anyone else? 13 Yes, sir? 14 MR. HENDERSON: Yes. My name is Hiram 15 Henderson, and I'd like to go on record as being in support 16 of the County's plan, Plan 2. It probably concerns more 17 about the broader issues of being concerned about the 18 community and all of the citizens, rather than a little, 19 small, selected group. And to create this island within the 20 city tends to absolutely divide, as the word is being used. 21 It will tend to divide the citizens, rather than bring the 22 citizens of Kerr County together. And public service is 23 about broader issues, about all of the cities of -- citizens 24 of Kerr County. Thank you. 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you, Mr. Henderson. 53 1 Yes, sir? Mr. King? 2 MR. KING: Well, I have to say that under the 3 -- Mrs. Arredondo's plan, it might be an opportunity 4 somewhere in the future to elect a minority for this 5 Commissioners Court. You all know -- I think are aware of 6 what's going on in the city, as far as the single-member 7 district. When the City Attorney says, Well, we don't have 8 to worry about it; just let them file suit -- and they're 9 going to file suit, I'm sure of that. There hasn't been a 10 minority on this County Commission, as far as I know, since 11 reconstruction, and I don't know whether we've ever had a 12 woman on the Commission. And I'd just like to say, unless 13 you get the minorities in some group where they'll have an 14 opportunity to elect a Commissioner or a councilman or 15 whatever -- because, right now, and under this plan, they 16 have no -- no idea -- no way of ever having a representative 17 to represent the minority. Thank you. 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any other comments? 19 MR. KUBENKA: Stan Kubenka. I'd like to come 20 back to the very, very first beginning thing that you talked 21 about with the Constitution of the United States; one man, 22 one vote. That's a criteria that really ought to be 23 considered. If we try to come up with different focus 24 groups, whatever they may be, we could be here forever. One 25 man, one vote. 54 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: Anyone else? 2 MR. SIEMERS: Paul Siemers. I don't have 3 anything original to say. I wholeheartedly agree with what 4 Granger MacDonald said and others have said. I think it 5 would be a big mistake for everybody to have a precinct that 6 was totally contained within the city, and I certainly -- on 7 that basis, I would support Plan 2 here. 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: Mr. Romero? You had your 9 hand up? 10 MR. ROMERO: I'm of the opinion that there will 11 someday be a Hispanic, there will be a woman serving on the 12 Commissioners Court, and I think it just has to be the right 13 person. I don't think that you can -- as far as I'm 14 concerned, I don't -- and if I were elected to something, I 15 just would hope that I was elected and -- and just happened to 16 be Hispanic. But I think it's going to happen, and I think 17 just the right person has to come along. I think it has -- 18 that person has to serve and pay his dues to this community, 19 and I don't see this community as being totally biased against 20 anything like that. But that's just my opinion. 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you. Anyone else? 22 Yes, constable? 23 MR. GARZA: I'm Constable Angel Garza, and I 24 live in Precinct 3. And I'm kind of in support of Plan 2, 25 like Mr. Romero here said. One man, one vote. And I just 55 1 feel like -- you know, I feel like I'm a Hispanic; I was 2 elected to the office, I think, on what I stand for and who 3 I am. And the people of the -- my precinct, you know, saw 4 that. So I feel like, you know, this is a good plan, as far 5 as I'm concerned. 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you, constable. Yes, 7 sir? 8 MR. EVANS: Just one last comment. Maury 9 Evans. It used to be one man, one vote, but they did change 10 it to women get the vote as of the 18th amendment. 11 (Laughter.) 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: Anyone else? Commissioner 13 Williams? 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I would just point 15 out that the elected constable in Precinct 2 is also 16 Hispanic. 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: Anyone else have any 18 comments? Pat Dye? 19 MS. DYE: My name is Pat Dye, and just an 20 observation. Having been in county government for over 22 21 years, this is a very good plan, this Plan 2, and I think 22 the election polling places is going to be not real easy, 23 but I think it's going to be much better this time to 24 hopefully find workers. But, it brings to mind this having 25 one Commissioner's precinct in the city limits of Harris 56 1 County. If I'm not mistaken, when John Lindsey was County 2 Judge, I believe I remember reading an article that he 3 wrote, but in that one instance, all of Harris County 4 encompasses the whole city. And I think, then, that's when 5 we can start looking at combined governments and having dual 6 county and -- and city. Maybe not the fire protection, but 7 the police protection, having combined services that way. 8 That's all I have to say. 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any other comments? Any 10 other comments during this public hearing? 11 (No response.) 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: Once, twice, going. At this 13 time, we will conclude the public hearing. 14 (The public hearing was concluded at 5:19 p.m., and the regular Commissioners Court 15 meeting was reopened.) 16 - - - - - - - - - - 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: We're going to take about a 18 10-minute break, reconvene at 5:30. Commissioners Court 19 does have scheduled, if we choose to do so, a vote on which 20 plan to -- to adopt and to move forward with the necessary 21 requirement with the Department of Justice. So, we'll take 22 a break and come back about 5:30. Thank you all. 23 (Recess taken from 5:20 p.m. to 5:30 p.m.) 24 - - - - - - - - - - 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: Ladies and gentlemen, if we 57 1 could come to order, please? Before we -- before we 2 formally reconvene the Commissioners Court special meeting, 3 I was handed during the break a letter from Ms. Vivian 4 Calhoun regarding redistricting; however, the letter 5 actually pertains to school districts. I'll read the 6 pertinent part. "These are the advantages of changing from 7 the Nimitz School District to the new school..." and it goes 8 on to list the advantages. The process we're involved in 9 now has obviously nothing to do with the Kerrville 10 Independent School District lines, as far as elementary 11 schools are concerned. I did want, however, to recognize 12 that I was given this letter from Vivian Calhoun, who lives 13 on Thompson Drive, and I will forward it to Dr. Jackson at 14 the school district for their consideration, but it will not 15 be a part of this record, because it does not relate to 16 Commissioners precincts, redistricting. 17 So, at this time, we'll reconvene the regular 18 special session of the Kerr County Commissioners Court. The 19 item for consideration, which is posted on our agenda as 20 Item Number 14, is to consider and discuss the adoption of a 21 redistricting plan for Commissioners' precincts in Kerr 22 County and authorize the submission of the plan and 23 supporting information to the Department of Justice per the 24 Voting Rights Act preclearance. There has been an order 25 prepared by our consultant regarding adoption of a plan. 58 1 Would the Commissioners like to make any comments before we 2 have a motion and a vote? 3 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I have a question. 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: Would you like to proceed to 5 a vote at this time? 6 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I have a question, 7 just for what happens downstream. We submit this for 8 Justice preclearance and so on. Then does the Justice 9 Department -- is that the next step? They come back and say 10 it's okay or whatever? And then do we take further action 11 at that point, or does it happen automatically, or what -- 12 what's the process from here? 13 MS. REDDINGTON: The Commissioner asked what 14 happens after a plan is adopted by the County. Well, we 15 will need to work with your County Clerk and with your 16 Elections Administrator to develop your election precincts 17 within the lines, the new lines that you adopt, and then all 18 of that will be converted into metes and bounds 19 descriptions. It will go to the Justice Department in the 20 form of a submission which will explain the Court's 21 considerations and concerns as you work through this 22 process. And we will request that the Justice Department 23 preclear this plan so that you can conduct your next round 24 of elections. They have 60 days in which to act, and can 25 gain another 60 days by asking for additional information, 59 1 so it could be up to 120 days before we hear back from them 2 as to whether or not the County has received preclearance. 3 But, we will -- we will get the submission in to them as 4 early as possible, and hope to hear from them before 5 December 1st. 6 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Okay. 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: Are there any other questions 8 regarding the process? Is it the consensus of the 9 Commissioners that we're proposed to go ahead and take a 10 vote on the map at this time? 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, Your Honor. 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: If so, I'd entertain a motion 13 as to adopting an order approving a map and moving forward. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, I'd like to 15 offer a motion to adopt Kerr County Illustrative Plan 2, 16 which was submitted by the Bickerstaff, Heath, Smiley, 17 Pollan law firm, and move the process forward. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion by Commissioner 20 Williams, second by Commissioner Letz, that the Court adopt 21 the Illustrative Plan Number 2 prepared by the Bickerstaff 22 Heath law firm as the map for Kerr County Commissioners' 23 precincts based on the Year 2000 census, and authorize 24 submission of the plan and supporting information to the 25 U.S. Department of Justice for Voting Rights Act 60 1 preclearance. Commissioner, does your motion include 2 authorizing the County Judge to sign any necessary 3 submissions? 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It does, Your Honor. 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. Any further questions 6 or comments? If not, all in favor, raise your right hand. 7 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 9 (No response.) 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. 11 Ms. Reddington has prepared three orders which reflect the 12 motion that was made and adopted. She has asked that -- I 13 have one here; there are two on the bench down there. She's 14 asked that we all sign those before we depart today so that 15 she can make rapid progress towards the preclearance. If 16 there are no other issues to come before the Kerr County 17 Commissioners Court on this Monday, July 23rd, we stand 18 adjourned. We thank you all for your attention and 19 participation in what is extraordinarily important for all 20 of us here in Kerr County. Thank you very much. We are 21 adjourned. 22 (Commissioners Court adjourned at 5:38 p.m.) 23 - - - - - - - - - - 24 25 61 1 STATE OF TEXAS | 2 COUNTY OF KERR | 3 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 4 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as 5 County Clerk of the Commissioners Court of Kerr County, 6 Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth. 7 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 30th day of July, 2001. 8 9 10 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 11 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 12 Certified Shorthand Reporter 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25